Specifically Marilyn Manson and Kanye West. Am I overthinking this?
I listen to Die Antwoord still and read the poetry of Anne Sexton. The former is because I think some of the accusations against them are exaggerated, and part of their whole act IS being jerks. The latter is because what she did was clearly in the throes of her severe bipolar disorder which was long before they had any good medications.
Okay Die Antwood is interesting to me. I listen to a lot of obscure indie bands from South Africa. I have a few South African compilation CD’s. One track on one of those CD’s was Be Kind to Animals by Max Normal. I had some coworker reccommend Die Antwood because I said I liked South African music. I was reading about Die Antwood only to realize they’re the same artist. I couldn’t believe some obscure track on some 2001 compilation CD turned out to be by one of the biggest South African artists. Yeah the dude is a real asshole from what I’ve read.
Apparently South Africans are NOT fans of the band despite their success. I think what Tokkie claims about them sounds made up, apparently he’s an addict and trying to extort them is their take on it. It just doesn’t sound truthful at all.
Yeah I can’t imagine South Africans appreciating Ninja saying racism is a thing of the past or whatever he said. What was Tokkie claiming exactly? I remember someone claiming they were harassed by Ninja, is that what you’re referencing? I remember reading about it it but don’t remember the exact specifics. Disclaimer, I am not South African so I don’t claim to speak for them.
Tokkie claims he was sexually and physically abused by them and made into a slave. None of the sources seem very well sourced, it’s just based on a video he made, and they state that he’s an addict and trying to extort them for drug money. Capetown child welfare workers went to their house to see if their daughter Sixteen is ok, and apparently had no problems with them. I take abuse seriously but what he’s saying seems super farfetched and made up. I don’t think they’re great people exactly, but their characters are obviously an act and they’re middle aged parents under it all.
Do a hecking piracy. Problem solved.
Ripping stuff from YouTube for personal use isn’t even illegal.
I can’t, personally. Same with any art. Kanye can get fucked. Manson can get fucked. Pantera can get fucked. Neil Gaiman can get fucked.
Some are harder to walk away from than others though. Sandman and Death were two of the first comic book characters that I ever got to read complete stories of and not just random back issues. But I’ll never be able to look at another Gaiman creation again without thinking about everything.
Others are easier to leave behind. Bands like Pantera always came across as macho dickheads that beat up kids for listening to heavy metal back in school anyway. So I feel nothing saying nazi metalheads fuck off
What’s the problem with Pantera? I know almost nothing about them aside from an album plus a few singles
Phil Anselmo, singer of Pantera, in 2016:
And seeing that made me feel stupid for never picking up on the white power undertones in their music before. Honestly it’s made me feel something not good about a lot of metal bands in general since, considering that this very year, Metallica, Slayer and Pantera were still happily touring alongside each other as opening acts for Black Sabbath’s 20th final tour.
Thank you. That’s a shame. I was hoping it was one of the newer members of the band, but nope, he joined in the 80s.
Him and fans try to play it off as a joke, but it definitely means something when you keep making the same kinds of jokes and not changing after the first time people tell you it’s terrible
It depends, mostly on yourself and how you feel about it. Most artists have shown some form of shitty behaviour - Dave Grohl cheated on his wife for example. Is that enough to stop listening to his music? Probably not. Kanye West released a song called “Heil Hitler”…is that enough? Probably, but does that also count for his older songs? You decide. No one else can.
Yes. It would be necessary to live a modern life, given almost everything we use/eat comes from some unethical source. We abstain from the things that are important to us, according to our values. Lyrically if a song does not itself promote [terrible thing] then the music can be separated from an artist that does.
However if it is important to you that your listening does not generate income for those people, don’t listen to their music in apps (eg Spotify, who pays based on plays), nor on their official YT channels (which are likely monetised).
Also, be mindful that playing/listening to it around others is a form of ‘conspicuous consumption’, one of many ways our actions become ‘Word of Mouth’ advertising. This may lead others to believe you support the artists specifically, and depending on their values, they may be derisive or hostile. (Or, they agree with [terrible thing] and believe you are alike.)
Explain Manson pls
Yep! And yes, you are overthinking it. If you are worried about them profiting from you, then just pirate their stuff.
If they get even a cent from you, then you are funding their crap. Also whatever you don’t like about them will certainly be part of their art. If that doesn’t bother you, then sure, enjoy what you want.
What’s wrong with Marilyn Manson that wasn’t 20 years ago?
The most politically incorrect truth is this: People are not good or bad, individual people do a variety of good and bad things. Mister Rogers told his gay friend to stay in the closet and marry a woman. Hitler banned animal cruelty. We don’t like to talk about these things, but it’s a true principle and a useful one to live by.
It’s not politically incorrect at all. ‘Good’ and ‘bad’ are just too simplistic ways to interpret our complex world. It’s idealistic to try and put people in such simple categories, and it leads to a delutional worldview.
The only ‘politically incorrect’ part is that some people might jump down your throat for pointing out things about Hitler which weren’t terrible, because unfortunately neo-Nazis abuse this rhetoric as a wolfwhistle or for whitewashing. But as long as you’re clearly not doing that, there’s nothing politically incorrect with saying Hitler drank water.
I mean… technically, yes, we all do good and bad stuff.
But you can’t say Hitler was a good person just because he was against animal cruelty. I don’t think any person out there is cartoonishly evil to a point they never did anything good - that doesn’t make those evil persons not evil.
Absolutely. With all forms of art, I feel this is an extension of the Death of the Author concept, in that you separate the art from the artist, and it has less to do with what the artist intended and more to do with your take and interpretation of something, good or bad, and it’s effect and meaning for you.
For example, due to my childhood and lots of past trauma, I harbor some deeply resentful and hateful feelings toward Christians and Christianity in general. However, there are some Christian rock and metal bands I have always loved, and a lot of their music doesn’t always scream religion at me. I appreciate and enjoy some of these still today, despite the fact they ultimately are representing something I detest. The way I enjoy it and what it means to me is different from what they intended.
Sure. Just don’t pay. I listen to some very questionable or morally disgusting songs because I like the music. And I personally never care for the author’s life story. I don’t ask who builds my car either.
I’ve never felt guilty for consuming media of people who have done bad things; it’s not that it’s not important to have integrity, I just assume everyone I could consume media from has and does, and the difference is that I’ll either never know, or don’t know yet.
We can’t just throw away historical and culturally significant works because the creator(s) are terrible, in part because broken, complicated, terrible people make these works because that’s where the creative energy is.
I don’t think it bad to still enjoy their music. If the music is good then its good regardless if the author is good or not. I understand not wanting to support them however. So though I don’t think its bad to still listen to them I understand how others fell differently
Dont support them by buying their stuff. Just pirate their music. For me personally, i dont follow artist in anyway shape or form. I have bigger problem to worry about. I just listen to songs i like and go on with my day.
