cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/24657192
Summary
In a virtual speech at the World Economic Forum, Trump suggested Canada could become a U.S. state to avoid his proposed tariffs on imports.
The remark elicited gasps from the audience.
Trump claimed the U.S. does not need Canadian lumber, energy, or vehicles, vastly overstating the trade deficit between the two nations.
He reiterated his intention to impose tariffs, potentially as high as 25%, on imports from Canada and Mexico starting February 1.
Economists warn such tariffs would raise prices for U.S. consumers.
Canada is avoiding Trump’s tariffs by not becoming a state.
They are not paying the tariffs, american people do. So by joining the US they would start paying all the tariffs that Trump is putting on China’s products, European products …
Why do people think that happens? It does not happen. 90% of the tariffs will be absorbed by Canadian companies trying to keep up sales to the US because there’s nowhere else to go, and even if they sell elsewhere, it’ll be discounted that much to other countries because of the general laws of supply and demand.
The only way, and it’s one that we have nothing in place to effect, is to mark prices as of the tariff date and to enact an export tariff for the amount of the sale under the price set point. That would highly discourage discounting sales and pretty much just cut them off since, in the case of products made or produced in the US, it would be competing with local products at 125% of the local price.
No, that’s called “dumping” and is against compliance of WTO rules, which would then allow the importing country to raise more taxes as anti-dumping measures.
This is from a US Gov website explaining what that is
The importer, not the exporter pays tariffs. Aka Canada pays nothing, things made in Canada have an extra tax attached to them when they cross the boarder into the us, paid by Walmart or whomever ordered the goods
Yes, but in the real world, while the importer pays the tariff, they’ve taken a discount on cost from their supplier in order to compete with local goods that aren’t tariffed. That’s why no country wants tariffs applied to their imports. Its almost like governments understand how this works.
Ummm no.
In the real world consumers ultimately end up paying the tariffs.
Domestic suppliers have a tendency to raise prices is response to increased demand and decrease competition from imports.
When Trump implemented a tariff on Washing Machines in 2018 during his first term. The price of imported washing machines went up, the price of domestic washing machines went up, the price of dryers… which weren’t tariffed went up.
Eventually it did led to more washing machines and dryers being manufactured domestically. Which did lead to a small increase manufacturing in jobs. But it was a net loss for the consumers.
Tariffs function as a flat tax on goods. Like all flat taxes this benefits the wealthy and hurts poor and the working class.
Well, when it’s been in place and the Canadian economy is in free fall, you can come here and tell me how wrong I and all the governments were about how this works. I’m sure it’ll go totally different than the softwood lumber tariffs that shut down the forestry industry in BC for a decade.
Here’s the Canadian forest industry take on tariffs. Mostly borne by Canadian producers:
https://forestresources.org/2024/12/19/a-discussion-around-tariffs-on-cdn-lumber/
I’m confused friend.
The article you linked to says:
… Canadian lumber producers would not be able to absorb this, the price of lumber will adjust upwards ….
Is that not, quite literally, a direct contradiction of your earlier statement that:
90% of the tariffs will be absorbed by Canadian companies
And if the price increases, is that not the consumer paying the tariffs?
I’m out of energy for this.
You’re right, we should just ignore it because it’ll only affect the USians. Maybe we lobby them to make it 50% so it punishes them more. It’ll all be perfectly fine here.
Democracy is demagogue-prone. That’s a disease to which electoral systems are vulnerable. Yet demagogues are easy to identify. They gesture a lot and speak with pulpit rhythms, using words that ring of religious fervor and god-fearing sincerity.
The practice can always be detected by anyone who learns the signs: Repetition. Great attempts to keep your attention on words. You must pay no attention to words. Watch what the person does. That way you learn the motives.
They create a system where most people are dissatisfied, vaguely or deeply. This builds up widespread feelings of vindictive anger. Then they supply targets for that anger as they need them—as distraction. Don’t give time to question.
They bury mistakes in more laws. Traffic in illusion. Bullring tactics. Wave the pretty cape. People will charge it and be confused when there’s no matador behind the thing. That dulls the electorate just as it dulls the bull.
Fewer people use their vote intelligently next time.
There appears to be a rule of nature that says it’s almost impossible for self-serving groups to act enlightened, flowing with the forces of life, adjusting your actions that life may continue. With the greatest amount of happiness for the greatest number, of course.
The risks of democracy and how to prevent them paraphrased from Dune.
Apparent everywhere, Trump is just one in this path of centuries.
Focus on actions, not promises, and unite against inequality and division. Systems should be simple, transparent, and work for everyone, not just the wealthy or powerful. Educating and organizing workers, holding leaders accountable, and building solidarity across all groups are essential for achieving fairness. Lasting change comes from addressing root causes, not chasing temporary fixes.
Maybe the next century will show results somewhere.
I mean honestly, he’s just a giant douche canoe that accurately reflects the level of intelligence and emotional maturity that the most of his fucking deplorable Nazi base is. There’s nothing he’s here said that isn’t what his moronic base says on a daily basis and is more or less a accurate representation of America and Americans by large.
America is a nation of idiots.
If’n he can point to it on a map
As a Canadian, fuck you Trump. Canada will never be a US state. Not sorry.
The amount of Americans visiting Australia who assume people here would want to live in America instead given the option was astounding to me.
If it goes down I’m just gonna scoot up north and fight on your side for Canadian citizenship.
That’s a really good idea! I’m about 5-8 hours from the Canadian boarder but I will not fight for a fascist country. I’ll either join the other side or join a resistance here.
<sigh> Four more years of this shit. But oh well, it’s worth it if it spared a few people of superior moral integrity from compromising their principles to vote for Harris when she didn’t measure up to their requirements and the Democrats didn’t run a good enough campaign and besides it was kind of cold that day and it would have meant putting on pants.
I think it comes to to a lot more than that, bud. I don’t agree with the 13 million that didn’t vote but I understand their frustration.
I shared their frustration myself, but I realized stopping Trump was more important in the long run. Too bad not enough others did - he hardly won any states by more than 200k.
Well… and then there’s the now published interference with the voting machines in the swing states that Harris did nothing about. I almost wonder if those 13 million would have come out, would it even have mattered? I understand SCOTUS would’ve said ok so what? But even a fucking requested recount to show there was fuckery going on would’ve at least been the documentation we needed to see to move ahead down the road.
The only one I’m aware of is in Michigan, where 3 Trump allies are now charged with tampering or planning to tamper with voting machines, and that case is moving forward.
Yea. Surprised it isn’t bigger news at least in the social media circles. There was this post on Jan 20th here: https://sh.itjust.works/post/31381451. Which lead me to read this letter a bunch of high level security officials sent to Harris … which apparently fell on dead ears, here: https://freespeechforpeople.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/letter-to-vp-harris-111324-1.pdf … and as much as I fucking hate conspiracy theories and the people behind them, there was this data analyst who made an extremely compelling data backed argument here: https://youtu.be/QDWwLDejg8Y
Thanks for those links - the Nathan guy especially makes a lot of compelling points, even though they still could just be results defying polls. I don’t think the lack of news about this implies a lack of interest or that nobody is doing anything. If there is any substance to the vote swap idea I’m sure something will be uncovered, as anything on this scale would leave a lot of loose ends.
Us citizens pay tariff this doesn’t hurt Canadians. They should call bluff and say do 30%.
Actually tariffs will hurt Canadians deeply. Why? Because it means that Americans will lean towards not buying products made in (or partially made in) Canada. Plus, Canada would certainly reciprocate meaning the price of everything is going to go up in Canada. It’s not a good situation and our government needed to be spending the past 10 - 20 years developing stronger trade relations with other countries but instead we amplified our relationship with what is clearly a very unreliable and untrustworthy neighbour.
It potentially reduces exports from Canada to the US, hurting our economy. Nobody wins
Canada’s economy is dependent on the US. Trump might actually pull this off.
Edit: More context since people are downvoting. Consider the following now picture yourself one of the greedy capitalists in Canada, which is a preferred outcome? Losing your wealth or losing Canadian sovereignty?
Just because I think it is likely doesn’t mean that I think it’s right. This is clearly wrong.
Not likely.
Likely doesn’t mean inevitable. I am the pessimistic type, so there’s that. I hope that I am proven wrong.
Canada is also America’s largest trading partner.
America had $357 billion dollars worth of imports from Canada in 2023, if they introduce a 25% tarriff Americans will pay $446 billion instead because it’s not like you’ll get all that stuff anywhere else for cheaper since America is going to put tariffs on practically every other country they trade with apparently.
Corporations spend billions on the current infrastructure and trade routes and logistics, they will not uproot everything and go through the pains of firing everyone then moving to America and retraining because of a short term loss. American administrations are fickle, many of them will simply wait out the 4 years hoping it will return to normal then. If it doesn’t then maybe they might consider it then but for the next 4 years Americans are going to be paying a shitload more for anything that’s not made in America.
American businesses will also find it a lot more difficult to sell their products out of the country when those countries retaliate with tarriffs against them.
He’s about to fuck around and find out…
He is about to fuck around and America is about to find out…
Tap for spoiler
The world doesn’t revolve around America.
rip you guys are gonna get couped
imperialism is manifesting itself in the imperial coreDo you really think it’s likely this will happen? I think hell just start throwing a tantrum and maybe symbolically apply some tariffs.
Yes it is likely. Canada can’t afford to resist. Canada is highly dependent on trade with the US.
Just because I think it is likely doesn’t mean that I think it’s right. This is clearly wrong.
Your screenshot does not make it likely.
This is a high level of cope. Those imports are worth almost half of Canadas GDP.
Trump seems to have the goal of destroying the US from all I can tell. Our economy and power are so dependent on our connections to the rest of the world and he is burning them all down. The US dollar gets replaced as the fiat currency we are wholly fucked and this dumb shit is how that happens.
That’s the point, I think, as well. I could see Putin using the useful idiot to destroy the primary rival to its superiority. The US is incredibly difficult to invade. The intelligence apparatus is too ingrained in all our communication to avoid detection. If you can’t get the rot to start from the outside, go for the inside.
This is peak BlueAnon/Marvel Cinematic Delusion, where Putin is a supervillain with a global mind control network.
Damn these Russians making the US into warmongers. After all, stealing land is a completely foreign concept in America
