CW: child abuse, abortion, sexual assault, suicidal ideation

I think if a fetus has an abnormality the parents don’t want, then they can choose to abort once it is caught. But once the infant is born, the parents shouldn’t be able to back out. I don’t have children, I might have them one day, so I don’t know if I’ll ever change my mind if I end up having a kid with a serious disability that wasn’t caught in time for an abortion. There are some conditions where the kid doesn’t even survive childhood. That sounds really heartbreaking but I couldn’t bring myself to basically kill a child.

I am physically and mentally disabled myself and it has been a struggle. I haven’t had kids yet because my disability has made me permanently low income and I don’t know if I have the strength and energy to raise a child. I am female so I would be carrying and birthing the baby and breastfeeding and all that jazz, unmedicated because my medication causes birth defects. There are times I want to die, I find myself drifting towards researching suicide methods. But it is my choice, it should never be anyone else’s. Certainly not my asshole parents’ decision.

I would like to say that if a parent wants to back out, the kid can go to a loving home in foster care. However, foster care is very bad in my area and I’ve heard very tragic tales from children that end up in their care. I don’t know why, I don’t know if it is a budgeting issue, but abusive foster parents in my area with clear mental and anger problems are allowed to foster anyway as well as typical abusive religious nutjobs. My parents were pretty abusive to me, one was the narcissistic abuser and the other was the enabler. I have PTSD from them and so do my siblings. And yet we ended up better than the foster kids I’ve heard from. I still would advocate for fixing the foster care system rather than killing all those children. My parents told me if I called CPS, I would be raped in foster care. It scared me enough to keep quiet about the abuse. Turns out it does happen, I know kids that went through that, and it is fucked up. I’m not saying every foster kid goes through this but I would never take that chance with my own kid. Adoption is not an option for me.

Right. So you are nitpicking the “anti” vs “pro” language commonly used in reference to concepts, principles, policies, ideologies, etc. Got it. I think this convo is going nowhere and ask you disengage.

A carnist is the opposite to a vegan, the opposing side. If you support the use and consumption of animal products, you are a carnist. If you are vegan, I am interested in how you define carnism. If you are not vegan, I am not interested in how you define it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism

Central to the ideology is the acceptance of meat-eating as “natural”, “normal”, “necessary”, and (sometimes) “nice”, known as the “Four Ns”… The arguments were that humans are omnivores (natural), that most people eat meat (normal), that vegetarian diets are lacking in nutrients (necessary), and that meat tastes good (nice).

EDIT: this person is not a vegan and is actually a carnist wasting people’s time

Hope the late reply is fine, I had a trip that wiped me out.

1. yes, the mod is being protective of the community. To you it is a slightly different opinion, to someone who follows a vegan lifestyle, it is not really vegan. Like at all. Vegans want to eliminate meat altogether. So if you eliminate meat by having a vegan restaurant, but then bring meat in, it is not vegan anymore. Idk what I would have done as a mod. Wanting meat at a restaurant is not vegan even if you are just trying to attract more customers so you do not close down. It might make more sense if you replace the word “meat” with “abuse, rape, and murder.” Would you accept a little murder, even killing children to stay in business? I get it is hard to get a non-vegan to try vegan food, I’ve written before about how my SO basically refuses to try vegan food even if it is my birthday. My SO also likes to bring up how stupid and extreme my veganism is to them, way too often. I now understand why vegans prefer dating other vegans.

2. carnists is a real term. It is:

“A proponent of carnism; one who supports the practice of eating meat and using other animal products.”

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/carnist

It is the opposite of veganism. They are essentially anti-vegan. They like to go in vegan areas and debate with everyone to try to justify their consumption of meat. It makes them feel good to troll us.

And yes there are people who try to eat nothing but meat, it is called a carnivore diet. I have a family member who is on the diet, they pretty much only want to eat steak. There is a new community on lemmy about it, I blocked it obviously. The mod of said community was whining about their stuff getting downvoted in their community on a different lemmy community. Judging by the amount of people (including admins) who hate vegans on lemmy.world, I thought their community would be very successful.

I get the whole “live and let live” thing about a difference in opinion on who the best character on a show you are watching is. But when it involves actual lives, I think it’s time to speak up. Vegans are annoying because they want people to stop killing animals for consumption and people would rather vegans just shut up and go away so they can enjoy their meat without thinking about where it came from, that’s it. Talk about veganism outside of a vegan community and be prepared to get ratioed.

When I go to a vegan community, I don’t want to debate with carnists. I would consider that trolling. There are other places meant for debating. Vegan communities are basically safe spaces to talk with other vegans and people that want to be vegan.

Too many carnists troll the vegan communities, they created this problem. I first joined lemmy during the reddit exodus on a .world account. The vegan community at that point was poorly moderated and most of the comments were carnists circle jerking about how eating meat is so great to them. Finally, active people took over and it became so much better to actually browse that community once these trolls were banned. This behavior is nothing new btw, I’ve seen assholes on reddit and facebook do the same to vegan spaces. You’ll notice I’m no longer on .world, I disagree with their modding practices and lately I feel even more justified in leaving that cesspool.

I want vegan news, vegan recipes, and vegan discussion. I do not want carnists coming in, at all. People can come in asking genuine questions about veganism, but no debating whatsoever. I do not mod any of these communities btw, but this is what I want as a user.

It seems hostile to you because you have not had to deal with the constant carnist trolls. People who complain vegans are militant or hostile is a red flag for me, it really means that vegans are too unapologetic about their veganism instead of being passive people who don’t rock the boat or question the status quo. These people are defensive about vegans pointing out that they are consuming products made from abuse, rape, and murder. They want to be treated with kiddie gloves. Sorry, but no vegan is obligated to do so.

I am super confused by your comments. It is cheaper to be vegan. I’m on welfare benefits for one person and am able to afford being vegan plus afford food for my non-vegan SO. Your comment about vegan cheese that doesn’t melt sounds like you haven’t tried more different vegan cheeses; for example if you want vegan mac n cheese you would make a vegan cheese sauce, not throw in a block of vegan cheese from the store and lament how it doesn’t melt. I have not needed dairy cheese for my meals, for burritos or burgers or anything like that and do not miss the taste or texture of dairy cheese. I also don’t consider vegan ice cream inferior, honestly you sound anti-vegan. Maybe you are just venting in defense but this is pretty much the language I would expect from my carnist family members.

It sounds like you don’t care about the morality of veganism (something I care very much about), that you did it more for the environment and once you felt inconvenienced you abandoned it. I do feel sad for you because not only is it cheaper to be vegan, but it can be delicious and you are not harming animals in order to do so. Do you still buy store eggs? I have a family member with about 7 hens and they still have to supplement with store eggs. The abuse cows go through for humans to have dairy (and meat obviously) is unacceptable to me. Yes, capitalism needs to be abolished, but in the meantime animals are dying by the millions every year.

It is very hard to get people to change, but I don’t think we should just give up on it. A lot of people do not have open minds about veganism, no one I know IRL was cool about me being vegan. I live in a blue state btw. All I expected was people not to care but instead I had a lot of negative feedback by the people around me. Me being vegan was like an attack on them. I even had one friend recently tell me my chronic pain would worsen without meat and insisted that I needed it, it was disgusting on so many levels. I had been vegan long enough to confirm my pain did not change at that point. It’s gotten to the point that I hate bringing it up. And I am tired of arguing with my SO over it, that could really be its own post lol. I really only feel safe talking about veganism online, but that’s at least a first step.