Vegans being banned and comments being deleted from [email protected] for being fake vegans.
From my perspective, the comments were in no way insulting and just part of completely normal interaction. If this decision reflects the general opinion of the mod team, then from my perspective, the biggest vegan community on Lemmy wants to be an elitist cycle of hardcore vegans only, not allowing any slightly different opinion. Which would be very unfortunate.
PS: In contrast to the name of this community, I don’t want to insult anyone here being a ‘bastard’. I just want to post this somewhere on neutral ground. I would really appreciate an open discussion without bashing anyone.
PPS: Some instances or clients seem to compress the screenshots in a way they’re unreadable. Find the full resolution here: https://imgur.com/a/8XdexTm
Linking the affected users and mods: @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected]
No, I asked myself why am I spending more money to the same conglomerates to receive a shittier product.
It’s “easy” to be a modern vegan…if you give half your food budget to Monsanto and Kellogs.
Being an ethical vegan is damn near impossible in the modern grocery market. Especially if you have a life outside being a vegan.
So I can pay top dollar for some shit cheese that barely melts, made by some giant food corp…for what? To feel better about protecting the environment? Why? So that more hicks in Texas can roll coal to their nearest buccees to buy a liter of diet coke in a Styrofoam cup?
Fuck it. The world’s going down in a hand basket anyway. If nobody else is gonna change them I’m not gonna disadvantage myself financially before the coming collapse by eating inferior ice cream.
This is an Appeal to Futility fallacy, which can render any argument immobile. “Why vote, it doesn’t matter anyway”. “Why help the needy, my contribution won’t fix the problem”. “Why continue living, we’re just gonna die anyway”.
If everyone thinks along your lines, society and the world basically just falls to bits. If the world suddenly adopted my view, climate change is basically solved, the risk of zoonotic diseases (COVID, bird flu, swine flu etc) basically stops, the risk of treatment resistant antibiotics hugely drops, conscious feeling creatures aren’t tortured and killed for pleasure.
The worst Monsanto vegies are absolutely more ethical than the best meat, for the planet, for your health and for the animal.
Sure. If.
But it’s not going to happen. Ever. The world is doomed and it’s a massive systemic issue. Me eating fake cheese isn’t going to fix it. A million people eating fake cheese won’t help it. It will exacerbate it.
The problem is capitalism and the scale of industrial farming. It’s not going to change by people being voluntarily vegan.
Appeal to Futility again. A vegan diet literally fixes the problem. It would remove 68% of the food chains climate emissions.
What do you think drives capitalism? If YOU stop eating animal products, and convince other people like I have, the demand for them drops. YOU are the problem, YOU are creating the demand, stop blaming a system, when you’re literally the reason it exists.
didn’t you try that?
And Ive reduced my carbon emissions immensely. Now it’s your turn.
as far as I can tell carbon emissions keep rising.
Because people continue to emit carbon. If people went vegan, carbon emissions would reduce.
but you just said that you went vegan, and they didn’t reduce. the evidence does not support your theory.
So you believe that shit BP made up about us watching our carbon footprints so they can blame us for climate change? If so then shut the fuck up, because you don’t actually care about stopping or reducing climate change, if you’re going to advocate for the solutions that were literally made up by the oil companies so we wouldn’t protest them and/or get their business BANNED, which is how these problems are actually solved.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/23/big-oil-coined-carbon-footprints-to-blame-us-for-their-greed-keep-them-on-the-hook
Yes I’m aware of that. You can go vegan AND protest oil companies, look at Greta Thunberg. Just because a bad corporation tells you to cut down on your emissions, doesn’t automatically make that message bad.
I like the passion though, doesn’t it feels frustrating being so anti-oil company, but defending the meat industry? They’re both horrible industries destroying the planet, propagandizing the populace, and destroying our health.
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You’re not god.
Nor are you. And unlike God (and you, apparently), I’m existing in reality.
That’s a lot of arrogance to say you’re “existing in reality” when nobody can see into the future.
It’s more arrogant to say “If the world suddenly adopted my view, climate change is basically solved, the risk of zoonotic diseases (COVID, bird flu, swine flu etc) basically stops, the risk of treatment resistant antibiotics hugely drops, conscious feeling creatures aren’t tortured and killed for pleasure.”
If I wanted to fight vegans right now, I’d be downstairs talking to my wife. I’m happy being ovo-lacto again. My girls are well cared for (I built them a mansion of a coop out of mostly reclaimed wood), and they repay me daily, and I’m enjoying creamy cheeses and ice cream that doesn’t taste like frostbitten ass (or paying $9/pint for a decent alternative)
I doubt it
If the world went vegan, deforestation would drop by 94%, which by itself would achieve 23% of the climate mitigation over a 15 year period.
Global farmland would also be reduced by 75%, returned an area the size of China back to forest.
Meat alone accounts for 15% of the entire planets greenhouse gas emissions, and 75% of all food emissions.
It’s literally the best thing a single person can do for the climate, so what’s stopping you?
there is no reason to believe the land would be reforested
I’m going to start replying in bad faith like you do, single lines that don’t further the conversation, ready?
“Petition governments and farm owners to have it reforested”.
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I doubt it
Don’t doubt it.
without evidence, everyone should doubt it.
Nope, they shouldn’t. There’s boundless evidence.
if that were true you could present some
edit: I have been politely asked not to engage in the off topic discussion in this community.
I doubt it
https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets
Imagine you were on a debate stage and someone cited a stat and your debate reply was quietly going up to the mic and going “doubt it”.
You’re not pithy or glib, just lazy and boring.
I have no interest in debate. I’m just looking for the truth
No you aren’t.
this is just another accusation of bad faith, made in bad faith
this relies on poore-nemecek 2018, which misuses it’s source data, didn’t even disclose this, and drew hyperbolic conclusions. but even if we could rely on that, there is still no reason to believe the land would not continue to be farmed
How does it misuse it’s source data?
LCAs are not transferable between studies. they compiled thousands of disparately methodized studies.
I doubt it
do you have a plan to make that happen?
Yeah, go vegan.
didn’t you already try that?
Yeah now your turn.
if it didn’t work for you, I have no reason to believe it would work for me
It will
what evidence do you have for this claim?
that’s not happening now, so don’t worry about it.
What part do you disagree with.
I said what I meant.
Which part specifically.
all of it.
Wrong
I know what I meant
I am super confused by your comments. It is cheaper to be vegan. I’m on welfare benefits for one person and am able to afford being vegan plus afford food for my non-vegan SO. Your comment about vegan cheese that doesn’t melt sounds like you haven’t tried more different vegan cheeses; for example if you want vegan mac n cheese you would make a vegan cheese sauce, not throw in a block of vegan cheese from the store and lament how it doesn’t melt. I have not needed dairy cheese for my meals, for burritos or burgers or anything like that and do not miss the taste or texture of dairy cheese. I also don’t consider vegan ice cream inferior, honestly you sound anti-vegan. Maybe you are just venting in defense but this is pretty much the language I would expect from my carnist family members.
It sounds like you don’t care about the morality of veganism (something I care very much about), that you did it more for the environment and once you felt inconvenienced you abandoned it. I do feel sad for you because not only is it cheaper to be vegan, but it can be delicious and you are not harming animals in order to do so. Do you still buy store eggs? I have a family member with about 7 hens and they still have to supplement with store eggs. The abuse cows go through for humans to have dairy (and meat obviously) is unacceptable to me. Yes, capitalism needs to be abolished, but in the meantime animals are dying by the millions every year.
It is very hard to get people to change, but I don’t think we should just give up on it. A lot of people do not have open minds about veganism, no one I know IRL was cool about me being vegan. I live in a blue state btw. All I expected was people not to care but instead I had a lot of negative feedback by the people around me. Me being vegan was like an attack on them. I even had one friend recently tell me my chronic pain would worsen without meat and insisted that I needed it, it was disgusting on so many levels. I had been vegan long enough to confirm my pain did not change at that point. It’s gotten to the point that I hate bringing it up. And I am tired of arguing with my SO over it, that could really be its own post lol. I really only feel safe talking about veganism online, but that’s at least a first step.
for some people
edit: I have been politely asked not to engage in the off topic discussion in this community.
Why only for some?
I fuel my pathos into funding a local regenerative farm that I can visit and see the ecology. Sure, ordering food two weeks ahead of time is a headache, but I know where every dollar is going.