• Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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    2 months ago

    Ah yes, so the best option is to not vote and let them succeed unimpeded.

    I’m all for voting for a better candidate, but we have a broken 2 party system, and it very much is if you don’t vote for one of the two main parties, you are pretty much just not voting at all.

    I don’t vote for this person. I’m voting against that person.

    • Simmy@lemmygrad.ml
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      2 months ago

      That’s exactly the voter attitude, that gets the broken 2 party system. Politicians know this kind of thinking and use it to their advantage.

    • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 months ago

      In my country we stopped voting the socdem party, because they betrayed the workers. From one election to the next they lost like half the votes.

      For 4 years the conservative party ruled. But after that the socdem change their politics we voted them again and had had a fairly leftist government for the last year.

      They are slacking again so I plan not to vote next election, hoping thar more people get the memo, they sink again in votes and sit to think on why people felt betrayed, and change for the better.

      4 years of conservative party were worthy giving that after the socdems turned left again we conquer a lot of things that we wouldn’t have gotten otherwise if we would have keep on voting their moderate centrist version.

      We also voted for third parties when they said that it was throwing your vote away, and the other party got almost the same votes as the socdems(too bad they were not that good once they sat on office). My point is that courage is needed to make a change.

  • Floon@lemmy.ml
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    2 months ago

    Too many commenters here do not understand anything about how any of it works, especially how first past the post voting works. Progressives do not seem to understand that the system has not rejected them, but the voters have.

    It is mostly relentless propaganda for the oligarchs that has captured the country. That’s the problem, and it is not fixed by any of the suggestions here.

  • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    No.

    Look at how the system actually works. There are two choices. Both candidates have to compete for all the people who vote. If you sit out the election that doesn’t mean either candidate will try to get your vote; they’ll ignore you and go after the people who do vote.

    Someone else came up with this analogy. It’s like the trolley problem except the there’s a third option. The third choice is to throw the switch to “Neither,” but “Neither” isn’t connected and the trolley kills someone anyway.

    • ReadMoreBooks@lemmy.zip
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      2 months ago

      If 5% of the general election popular vote for POTUS, knowing that the candidate cannot win, still voted for the Green Party platform then what effect would that have upon the Democratic Party platform?

      On a five point difficulty scale this is a two. The test gets way harder than this.

      • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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        2 months ago

        If my grandmother had wheels she’d be a tea trolley.

        Right now the reality is the Donald Trump is going to take office because a lot of people didn’t vote for the alternative.

        All the ‘what if…?’ games in the world isn’t going to change that.

        • ReadMoreBooks@lemmy.zip
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          2 months ago

          Thank you for the opportunity to teach.

          If my grandmother had wheels she’d be a tea trolley.

          Minimization.

          Right now the reality is the Donald Trump is going to take office because a lot of people didn’t vote for the alternative.

          Red herring.

          All the ‘what if…?’ games in the world isn’t going to change that.

          Minimization.

          This is a bit better than typical nonsense because there’s two tactics in a sandwich. Next is usually ad hominem. But, this one may have another trick up their sleeve.

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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            2 months ago

            Simply naming fallacies isn’t teaching. The point of learning fallacies isn’t so that you can just name them and feel like you’ve made a point.

            • ReadMoreBooks@lemmy.zip
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              2 months ago

              I asked a question. I received a fallacy sandwich in return. There’s no point in investing further.

              Simply naming fallacies isn’t teaching.

              unsupported

              The point of learning fallacies isn’t so that you can just name them and feel like you’ve made a point.

              strawman

              • Mr Fish@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                The point of teaching is sharing knowledge, not just poking holes in whatever argument you can (intentional hyperbole, not strawman)

                The point of learning fallacies isn’t so that you can just name them and feel like you’ve made a point.

                strawman

                Instead of just “strawman, therefore you’re wrong” and leaving it at that, how about you explain what was incorrect in that statement. That way you become more understood, and everyone understands you more.

                This isn’t a courtroom debate. This isn’t a debate you “win” or “lose”. This is a debate where everyone should be trying to understand each other, so that everyone ends up better off by the end. This sort of debate is a cooperative thing, not competitive.

    • Saleh@feddit.org
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      2 months ago

      Voting for non evil is the way to go. By keeping to vote for the lesser evil, you get it to become more evil while keeping non evil out of power. This is how the system games you.