I read many comments on how PeerTube isn’t sustainable as a YouTube alternative and, while it’s certainly true right now, are we sure it will be the same in the near future?

The platform is growing and the new mobile app is making great progress; I can certainly see some people investing in a major instance some day, accelerating the platform adoption.

  • N3M@reddthat.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    18
    ·
    edit-2
    16 hours ago

    Like others have said, it’s way more resource intensive than text based systems. Even discounting higher res vids, if you go to any random larger YT channel and download all their videos in 144p 480p and 720p it’ll be quite a lot larger than you might expect. Sure, if you’re serious about it you could get an array of hard drives and a small server, but you’re talking hundreds of bucks and lots of upkeep. Outsource it to a VPS and AWS buckets and you’ve still got upkeep but now you’ve added an extra 0 to your bill.

    There’s not enough charitable nerds on the internet to host even a fraction of 1% of Youtube. It’s even worse if self hosting instances is pushed. Even as a fellow tech nerd, no way I’m hosting my own instance just so I can share a video once in a blue moon. Something that always gets my goat in fediverse discourse is when people always jump to saying something along the lines of “just host your own” then wonder why AP went from ~2.5M users to 0.8M users.

    There’s also some Fediverse specific issues that hold back a more mainstream audience. There’s some fringe political stuff on both sides of the isle which can pretty easily scare off people, and defederation combined with peertube’s more siloed approach makes discovery near nil. (can’t see content from remote peertube instances unless somebody has already subscribed to that channel on the remote instance from your local instance AFAIK).

    Then there’s the new platform (or in this case many platforms connected via one protocol) issues. Lack of users, limited/no monetization, limited development/support, and very few pros + a lot of cons at first glance from somebody who doesn’t consider tech a hobby and is comparing it to established platforms.

    Edit: Can’t remember who, but iirc a peertube user I follow who regularly deletes their videos because their host doesn’t give them too much space. It’s great for a less big tech way to see their latest videos, but not acceptable if anyone’s gonna bill something like that as the next big video platform.

    • 3abas@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      8 hours ago

      Yes, yes, you named the benefits and convenience of a centralized system.

      Federalized systems require individual federated maintenance, and that comes with some challenges, but maybe it’s not the worst thing in the world if the random videos you uploaded to youtube that never get any views eventually disappeared… Maybe the planet shouldn’t bear the burnt of indefinitely holding those videos in replicated backed up storage forever. Maybe that’s not valuable data we need for future civilizations.

      What if a valuable creator dies and noone is there to run their instance? These are important things to consider and think through so we can solve them. Maybe the answer is a community driven peer node replication?

      These aren’t unsolvable hurdles, they’ve been solved already.

  • nimpnin@sopuli.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    44
    ·
    23 hours ago

    Hosting video requires a lot more resources than hosting text, hyperlinks, or even pictures. It might be too much for individuals to self host video on a scale that could even distantly resemble how we use youtube today.

    Then again, maybe there are ways to make that burden smaller. IIRC Peertube does do some p2p stuff to try and share the burden a bit but I’ve also heard that it’s not really feasible to rely on that to scale.

    • lambalicious@lemmy.sdf.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      19 hours ago

      Then again, maybe there are ways to make that burden smaller.

      Yes: encode on lower resolutions.

      Most of the videos on Youtube don’t ever need to be 4K. They don’t even need to be 1080p. Heck, most don’t even need 720p! Things like music videos, where what’s important is the music, orthings like old TV broadcasts or play rips of old consoles, where the source barely gets to 360p, can be encoded to 360p or even 244p without any suffering (I played Monster Hunter on the 3DS for years and I can attest 244p can do great works of magic).

      This mixes wonderfully with Peertube’s idea about hosting your own instance. If you are hosting your own video storage, you’ll want to maximize the amount of stuff you can throw into it. If someone complains that your videos aren’t 1080p, tell them to go to /donate.php and do their part.

      • ThorrJo@lemmy.sdf.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        16 hours ago

        How does the p2p work? I thought there was a bittorrent-like aspect to it but what you’re describing sounds different.

        • Meldrik@lemmy.wtf
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          10 hours ago

          If multiple people are watching the same video, at the same resolution, it uses WebRTC (HLS P2P) to share data between them, saving bandwidth from the PeerTube instance.

          A PeerTube instance can also function as a peer (seed) for another PeerTube instance.

    • mesa@piefed.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      20
      ·
      22 hours ago

      I have a server with less than 100gb that’s running it for a year so far. No issues and even has a channel with 100 or so subscribers (literally my dog).

      It’s p2p capabilities make it pretty easy to distribute videos. And the server admins have the ability to toggle if they want to host other videos from other instances or not. They even have the ability to host specific individual videos if they want to support certain creators. Its a very intelligent system.

      If anyone wants to take a look, we have a couple different communities/channels/videos over on [email protected]

      • nimpnin@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        19
        ·
        22 hours ago

        For small-scale stuff like that it will surely work. It’s unclear if it scales to youtube volumes. Maybe it doesn’t have to though, small scale stuff is valuable too.

        • obsidianfoxxy7870@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          16
          ·
          22 hours ago

          Also to be fair I feel like YouTube has a large amount of deadish Internet content or just content that can’t exist in a landscape that doesn’t reward getting clicks (think Mr. Beast and similar).

        • mesa@piefed.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          ·
          22 hours ago

          Yep no reason to scale until you need to scale.

          Everyone wants it to be YouTube. With ads and algorithms and…

          Just let it be peertube. It works now.

        • Max-P@lemmy.max-p.me
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          22 hours ago

          I think P2P has stood the test of time. Torrents scale extremely well, any large scale video would have so many peers the server wouldn’t have to participate at all. These days most torrents easily saturate my gigabit connection no problem with just a handful of peers. Torrents tends to spread like wildfire.

          The main issue would be storage space, but I think a lot of YouTubers would be perfectly okay with spending $5-10 a month to pay for the storage costs with all the benefits you get from not being tied to YouTube’s ToS and policies. It’s a drop in the bucket compared to the earnings from sponsor spots.

      • Ulrich@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        22 hours ago

        100 subscriber is NBD. Let’s talk when you have thousands or even millions of active users. At some point you’re going to hit a wall if you were to hypothetically scale up. Costs of service would need to be covered somehow.

    • ThorrJo@lemmy.sdf.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      16 hours ago

      As far as I know the p2p only potentially applies when >1 global users are watching a video simultaneously.

      edit: am I wrong? I thought they had bittorrent-like swarming.

      • Meldrik@lemmy.wtf
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        10 hours ago

        You are right, but the users also need to be watching the video at the same resolution. A PeerTube instance can also function as a peer.

  • asudox@lemmy.asudox.dev
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    19
    ·
    edit-2
    20 hours ago

    Running an actively used Peertube instance is a lot more expensive than, for example, a Lemmy instance. Videos take up a lot more storage than text. Not only that, the videos also need to be processed and then served. Who will keep paying for the monthly server bills?

    Then there’s monetization. Most YouTube creators are there because they make a living out of YouTube. There is no such thing on PeerTube. They would need to solely rely on donations.

    The ideal PeerTube network would be where every somewhat big content creator ran their own instance and maybe a few general instances for smaller content creators that are regularly donated to.

    If YouTube ever gets killed by Google, don’t expect many people to come here.

    • Sonalder@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      10 hours ago

      I can see a future where big YouTube conten creators taking some independance and start monetizing a peertube instance with a real infrastructure and not just a cheap VPS. Maybe I am utopist.

  • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    15
    ·
    20 hours ago

    It’s not about adoption. It’s about money.

    Superfamousguy (a youtube user I just ficticiously created to represent every single big name youtuber) doesn’t make videos in their room talking about whatever, and uploads whenever.

    These guys have a strict schedule. They need to shoot today. Edit tonight, upload tomorrow exactly at 11am. Because their users are conditioned to expect those videos at those times. So they get sponsored, and now advertisers are promised an average viewcount on the dominant video platform at a certain time. They’re paying superfamousguy money for those promises.

    It’s not a hobby, it’s a job. And advertisers are not going to be willing to touch peertube because it’s handled by so many fragmented cases that it’s impossible for peertube to have the stability of youtube.

    So, I’m not saying peertube can’t grow. I’m just saying its decentralized nature will scare most advertisers away. Without the advertisers, superfamousguy can’t make a living. And at that point it doesn’t matter if peertube has twice as many viewers as youtube. Without money, these professionals cant fund their crew, they can’t make videos, and thus stick to youtube.

    • SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      20 hours ago

      Really, Google and Amazon are the only players large enough to make an alternative and host it.

      Both companies should just be nationalized by their countries they have their HQ in, or globalized by the UN.

      These are integral parts of our world and society, we shouldn’t allow them to be owned and controlled by private intrests.

  • hendrik@palaver.p3x.de
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    16
    ·
    23 hours ago

    I never heard that. I also think Peertube is doing great. And development has been constant, we get new features all the times, for years now.

  • Jakob Fel@retrolemmy.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    edit-2
    19 hours ago

    I personally see Peertube as something that’d be better as a small-scale, reasonably low-key way of storing and sharing videos if you’re not interested in monetization or views. For example, documentation for a passion project.

    For everything else, a different form of decentralization makes more sense, such as Odysee (though we’ll see how the Arweave migration goes).

    • mesa@piefed.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      22 hours ago

      Discoverability is one of the bigger issues. In YouTube there is a huge push to be more discoverable to the algorithm and to keep users on the platform. In peertube there’s no such pressure…for better or worse.

  • Ulrich@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    edit-2
    20 hours ago

    The sustainability argument stems from technological constraints. YouTube as a company has no problem sustaining millions of dollars in server infrastructure to serve media. Most self-hosters wouldn’t be able to do that without significant income.

    I don’t agree with this perspective but also don’t know enough about server infrastructure or video streaming to argue against it.

    • SynonymousStoat@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      21 hours ago

      I’ve recently caught myself making this spelling mistake recently, but I think it has only happened since I interacted with a company that makes microphones named Shure, so I blame them.

  • Auster@thebrainbin.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    19 hours ago

    I consider two things to think Peertube not being sustainable isn’t the case.

    First, the noise caused bad actors / professional fearmongerers, and people too used to Youtube or that think any social medias would skyrocket in the first month of service, may make people think it’s a far more prevalent opinion.

    Second, platforms such as Peertube may cather to any movements, be them cultural, political, for business, and so on, while also, due to being based on instances, it much harder to be taken over.

    Those two together make me see the project as having great potential, a potential that some may fear intentionally or otherwise.

    And on a side note, “the new mobile app” reminds me, anyone could potentially make programs for it, or even integrate Peertube to their own. Another reason for it being able to cather to way more people, I think, as then programs could be made to interests and needs otherwise not found.

  • Auli@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    22 hours ago

    Yep not sustainable. Think of how much diak space YouTube is using. Just was reading this morning how peertube instances limit new users and that’s ok. If everyone can’t upload videos it we’ll never replace YouTube.

    • Ulrich@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      21 hours ago

      This is just 12 different kinds of incorrect.

      Think of how much diak space YouTube is using

      Disk space will be the least of your concerns when running a service like YT.

      If everyone can’t upload videos it we’ll never replace YouTube.

      1. Everyone CAN upload videos to their own instance.
      2. It doesn’t have to replace YouTube. It can exist alongside it as a competitor.
    • mesa@piefed.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      edit-2
      22 hours ago

      Some peertube instances do, most do not. Some have manual processes, some don’t.

      Ex: https://makertube.net/signup

      And no one is stopping anyone from creating their own server. Yunohost even makes it a one click solution.

      It’s just like Lemmy/fediverse stuff. Each instance provider has their own rules. And that’s ok

    • suoko@feddit.it
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      21 hours ago

      Disk space is quite cheap and I’m sure high quality vids could take a very small space if NPU processed and upscaled.

  • TheRealCharlesEames@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    edit-2
    23 hours ago

    Unfortunately, I have zero faith in the team behind it. Unless the team changes, I doubt that peertube will ever become what it wants/needs to be.

        • mesa@piefed.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          22 hours ago

          I’ve seen their code and how they operate. Seems legit to me but I’m a bit biased.

      • TheRealCharlesEames@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        21 hours ago

        Sorry to take what seems like such a strong stance but they don’t have what it takes to build a successful YouTube-ish platform imo. This is based on my experience in the field and my observations of their output over the years. I know it sounds like a cop out but I don’t have the time to discuss further rn.

        Honestly, I’d be happy to learn that I was wrong. I have and will continue to root for any federated YouTube competitor. I just don’t think it’s going to be from FS.