I’ve always wondered this. Some people have trouble with dating because they try to go for people out of their league who don’t like them back. But society also tells us that we can’t choose who we are attracted to. Like for example, no one makes a “choice” to be gay.
So what happens when you’re only attracted to those out of their league that will never ever like them back?
Do the people with this issue still date? But when they date, they lie to their partner that they are into them? I have been on a couple of dates with someone I wasn’t into before. It make me incredibly guilty and dishonest that I did not like them back.
Curious as to the experience/thoughts of others.
Apologies if this is the wrong community. I will remove on request. Thanks.
Women don’t prioritise looks like men. No inherent leagues. Only our constructed ones which are mostly based on confidence.
Getting in shape or a solid career are solid alternatives to having a symmetrical face.
to quote pulp fiction, personality goes a long way.
what happens when you dont have personality to make up the difference? you just need to learn to be happy with yourself.
honestly you should start with being happy with yourself which helps with the confidence to demonstrate a good personality… then you might win the relationship lottery… might.
Well we’d have to be talkin’ about one charming motherfuckin’ pig.
A lot of people misunderstanding you I think.
So you, a regular person, is only attracted to very attractive people, maybe a small number of which you’ve seen in real life and most through media. What to do?
Welcome to the 21st century unfortunately. Your brain was trained on potential mates who were likely accessible, near by, and likely within the realm of being a good pair with you. You were not designed to be exposed to the “best” humanity has to offer on a global scale of billions. You have been spoiled so to speak, your sensitivity is all out of whack.
Solutions? First, don’t lie in a relationship, especially if you already know you’d feel like a fraud. One option is to follow your conscience of not lying and so not entering into intimate relationships at all (because the other almost certainly needs you to appreciate them in that way). Another is to fast from media a while. All of it. You’re in an unnatural situation (biologically speaking) the solution is going to seem extreme but essentially reducing your horizon back to potential relationships of ‘ordinary’ people and nothing beyond. Therapy helps too. Might not work, but you could be surprised.
Are ‘average’ people attracted to their ‘average’ partner. Yes. Attraction works in very different ways in many people. They know celebrities are more ‘attractive’ but the reality and closeness of the person they’re with is what’s more important to them and makes that attraction more ‘real’. Did cavemen find cavewomen attractive? Yes. It was all they’d ever seen. Your brain is on the same hardware version.
It sucks really but, to take an analogy, you’re stuck with your regular food at home with Michelin star chefs serving up masterpieces on TV 24hrs a day. You feel dissatisfied with what your kitchen has to offer. But you can’t afford a fancy restaurant.
Well. Comparison is the thief of joy. Turn the TV off (so to speak). Experiment with some new ingredients to see if you can surprise yourself with what’s on hand.
You should probably also fast from porn for a while (if that’s your thing).
Back to the bullshit of the 80’s ey? Just ask out whomever, you can’t read their minds. The only way you’ll know what they think is if you actually go up to them and ask.
This “league” stuff is just an excuse for people who don’t have the courage to talk to their crush
Listen Dingus, “leagues” are you devaluing yourself, and putting others up on a pedestal.
Stop it.
Leagues are a lie. Take the leap, you won’t die.
While nice of you to say, it’s not particularly realistic. Some dude from My 600 Lb Life is not dating Angelina Jolie unless there is something else going on.
Luckily there are people from all classes who 90% of the time are equally as beautiful as AJ. They just dont get professionally done up for photos and movies. You aren’t wrong, the world simply contains all of these things.
You are not dating Angelina Jolie because she doesn’t know you and is involved with someone else entirely. While looks might make for an easier first impression personality is much more important in the long run. Believe me, from one 1 to another.
Dude, there is always something else going on.
Relationships are not 1-dimension concepts formed on appearances. They are complex, with many facets and details that go into it.
Have you ever seen a couple and wondered “why is someone so hot with someone that ugly?” That’s because it’s not built in looks alone. Maybe he’s confident, or rich, or a good listener, or he’s good with kids, or any of a thousand other good qualities. Realistically it’s a combination of them all, because these don’t exist in isolation. And it applies in both directions. What changes are the criteria (e g. Men aren’t expected to have perfect skin, women aren’t expected to be confident. Generally)
What you’re describing is two opposite ends of a bell curve. Most people are in the large middle range of being normal (average) looking.
Right. I was using dramatics to make a point. I’m not attracted to “normal” people. I lack the ability. I can’t choose it and I understand it’s stupid.
Why do you say that? Do you actually believe that there’s a strict hierarchy of dating that everyone has to stay within? The whole “leagues” BS only sorta exists in society because some people believe in it.
Reminds me of a story my French teacher told me in HS:
One year he organized a class trip to Haiti for his students. Weird, I know, but it was a wealthy private school that could afford A) to send a class abroad and B) the security to reassure their parents that they’d be safe. Anyway, in the class there was a “plus-sized” girl who would get picked on by the rich skinny girls all the time. Queue the trip and apparently it became such a issue for the girl getting cat-called on the streets that a guard was assigned to be with her 24/7. None of the thin, fit, SoCal circa-early-Naughties, girls had this problem but in Haiti being “plus sized” meant you had access to lots of food and were wealthy. Anyway, moral of the story (and this part is apocryphal but was nevertheless told to me) is that the girl at some point exchanged contact info with a guy she met there, one of her prospective suitors, and kept a correspondence with him for many years until they were able to save enough money to meet in person again, here, stateside where they eventually got married. Eye of the beholder.
No, I don’t think there is a hierarchy anyone has to stay within. I am simply not attracted to 99% of people. The 1% I am are ultra attractive and thus not attractive to me or other “regular” people. I wish I could force myself to be attracted to others but I just can’t.
I’m not attracted to 99% of people either? I don’t see what your point is. Maybe you think you’re only into “ultra attractive” people because… you’re attracted to them? I’d love to hear what your “type” is.
Well, I’m going to approach this as friendly as possible. But you need to be aware that a lot of what you said in your post is just bad thinking, and there’s no way to answer it without making that point. It may feel like an attack because it’s essentially all saying that you’re wrong, but that’s not the intent. The intent is to guide you towards healthier thinking.
First, leagues are all in your head. They always have been and always will be, so long as where you live allows people to date/marry freely. Like, if you’re somewhere with a caste system of some kind where you literally aren’t allowed to be with someone of a different caste. I’m not talking about simple social pressures.
It is true that some people think in terms of leagues. They have their idea of what league they’re in, by whatever criteria they have, and they’ll make their decisions bases on that.
But that has nothing to do with you, or me, or anyone that chooses to ignore the fuck out of that kind of stupidity.
It is also true that attraction within your sexual orientation isn’t something you can choose. It is, however, something you can change. I’ll come back to that in a sec.
First though, our attraction to people within our orientation is not the same as orientation. Full stop, no bullshit, it isn’t something that is even remotely debatable at this point because there’s just too much evidence of it being the case. Being attracted to men, women, both, and (most likely, though there’s a lot less understanding of the whys and hows) neither is something that happens before you are born.
It cannot be changed, period. The most that can occur is someone realizing that their orientation isn’t as simple as they thought it was, then accepting that new awareness. Example: a gay dude may eventually realize there are very limited situations where he may be sexually attracted to a woman. This isn’t a change in his orientation, it’s simply a greater awareness of it.
So, please do absorb that and in the future avoid comparing your preferred looks/social status/whatever to sexual (or romantic) orientation. It’s just going to cause you problems, and in a way that will make it harder for you to find help with questions like this.
But, southsamurai, you say; how is it possible to change the rest? And, why did I have the attractions I have if it wasn’t a choice, but it’s changeable?
That’s a big hurdle to get past. Seriously, it’s hard.
Our ideas of what is and isn’t beautiful/attractive are formed before we even have the brain development to be attracted in any real way.
Now, there’s a limit to how much I’m willing to do in the way of explaining how I came across this all because it’s been in pieces over decades. I can’t link you to studies and publications because a lot of it came pre-internet on paper. So you’ll have to dig into it on your own if you want to connection or disprove any of this. I’m too damn old to do free reports, you dig?
Part of attraction is ingrained. We humans have a universal preference for two things) symmetry and adherence to the golden ratio. The Golden ratio is a little number that represents an ideal relationship between objects and their size. For example, if you look at someone’s ears, the ratio of them compared to their face width. The closer that ratio is to the golden ratio, the more attractive that face will be.
The symmetry is usually left/right, but it applies to other things too.
Now, you’re born with that level of preference. Even babies prefer looking at faces that are more symmetric, and closer to the golden ratio
But that says nothing at all about any of the other features.
So, what about things like hair and eye color? Where do our preferences for that kind of thing come from.
We learn it. Our exposure to other people when we’re very young influences it the most. We form our ideals of beauty by seeing our family, our neighbors, and eventually our teachers and peers. This all happens without conscious thought. It happens before we have the ability to even realize it’s happening.
It can even be formed inverted, where we reject some traits because of those early exposures. As an example, let’s say your aunt is mean as fuck. She’s blonde, so you end up not liking blondes. That’s over simplified, but that’s the idea of inverted beauty standards being formed. It doesn’t have to be that severe though.
There’s another aspect where familiarity is more likely to generate attraction. What you see most gets laid down as safe and constant. So you’re more likely to end up attracted to the familiar on average. It isn’t as universal as other aspects, and it can be inverted too, but it’s the norm. People tend to pick faces that resemble their early childhood exposure as being more attractive than otherwise.
Which means that if you’re surrounded by all blondes growing up, you’re more likely to find blondes attractive. Again, it can be inverted where you reject the familiar, and prefer everything else (which is supposedly about preventing inbreeding).
So, by the time you hit puberty, you’ve got this set of templates in your head that say “pretty”. Any person you meet gets placed against that template, and the closer they are to it, the prettier you think they are.
Okay, so how can we change that? If we start out only attracted to dwarf albino Basque women, we’re kinda SOL if we can’t change our standards of beauty. There just aren’t that many matches in the first place.
We change it the same way we formed it. We expose ourselves to variety. Given enough time, it will happen anyway. But you can speed it up by exposing yourself to images of other “types” in a controlled way. Get on the internet in a relaxed setting, with some comfort foods, or have a drink, or smoke a joint, or all of the above. The point is to set yourself up to be relaxed and feeling good. As you look at faces that don’t match your current preferences, you’ll be building up new layers of association.
This doesn’t apply just to faces. Works the same with bodies. Into super buff ladies? Do the same thing while looking at thicc ladies, super skinny ladies, or whatever, and you’ll eventually expand your tastes. Perhaps not to the degree that you’re as attracted to a skinny lady as you are to the gym goddess, but you’ll find that if you actually find a skinny lady and interact with her and it goes somewhere, that it will actually end up being your new preference, so long as you’re genuinely interacting with that person.
You can’t force attraction. But you can change your overall range. If you then act on that expanded range, and you get enough of those wonderful reinforcements like kisses and hugs and the holy grail of cuddles, your brain gets a massive dose of chemicals and positive experiences that rewrite everything.
But, how far does that go?
As far as you’re willing to take it. Truth is that even someone massively deformed, so that they aren’t anywhere close to the golden ratio or symmetry can be attractive to anyone. No bullshit, no being idealistic. Our brains are perfectly willing to ignore those facets so long as there are positives that counter them.
You ever see someone objectively unpleasant looking with someone that’s traditionally gorgeous? It happens. If you’re willing to abandon preconceptions, you can find anyone attractive. It’s all a matter of having those positive interactions that generate the right brain chemicals.
Leagues are imaginary. They’re lies we convince ourselves are true.
But, southsamurai you asshole, I’m ugly! How the fuck does that help me?
Well, you have to be able to interact with people in a way that generates those good feelings. The way to do that is to not treat people like a goal. You don’t think of them as something to gain or achieve. You don’t think of them as something at all. You discover who they are, while being a decent human being.
Part of that means abandoning entirely any concept of leagues. You have to eject and reject the concept that a person’s value is in their attractiveness at all. That means for yourself as well. If you’re thinking of things the way you are in your post, you have zero chance with anyone because you’ll only be capable of surface interactions. You could find the hottest model in the world, and get with her, but you’ll eventually lose her because you think of her as a hot model instead of “Jessica, this lady that is awesome”.
I promise you, if you abandon the concept of leagues, if you cut off the idea that “hotness”, beauty, sexual attraction, is important to long term happiness, you’ll be more attractive to everyone. You’ll have more friends. You’ll have partners. It may take longer to find a partner the more you diverge from symmetry and the golden ratio, because you have to encounter people that have gotten past the idea of looks being the center of attraction. But you will find them.
One of the great secrets of dating and sexual “success” is that the more you chase it, the less you’ll find it. The act of looking at other people as a goal to be achieved makes everything you say and do less likely to be attractive. At best, if you fake it well enough, you’ll fool people long enough to become someone they regret.
So, there you go my young homie. The collected knowledge of half a century of living, loving, and looking like a sasquatch while doing so.
When people say “work on yourself”, they rarely give useful advice beyond that. They’ll talk about maximizing your appearance, staying clean and dressing well, exercising, whatever.
But the stone cold truth is that none of that matters. Assuming we don’t get cancer or run over by am elephant, we all end up wrinkled, with saggy skin and aching joints. Ending up that way alone is horrible. You want another wrinkled, aching, saggy person with you as close to the end as possible. Looks ain’t shit. Looks don’t keep you warm at night.
Wonderful post. Thanks for taking the time to write it.
This needs more up votes. Thank you for the interesting read.
leagues are bullshit. the problem is having higher standards for others than for yourself. if you don’t want to settle for someone like yourself, focus on improving yourself not trying to date.
So what happens when you’re only attracted to those out of their league that will never ever like them back?
Work out, get in shape, learn how to dress well, find a nice hairdo. That will do a lot for a person.
But sometimes you find a person that their person whose personality is so amazing it outweighs your initial impression of their looks. This is (yet another reason) why dating apps are so bad.
When you say that you only find people who are “out of your league” attractive, you’re basically saying that you expect the person you want to date to hold themselves to a higher standard than you are willing to apply towards yourself. Essentially you feel entitled to a partner who will work diligently to be the person you feel you deserve, but you’re not willing to do the same for them.
There are two solutions to this problem: either you can put in the effort to raise yourself to the same standards that you expect from others, or you can lower your expectations.
Stop blaming made up “leagues” for your problems.
So it turns out people also are attracted to people below their “league”.
Things you can control:
- diet
- exercise
- social status
- financial status
Play with these variables until you get a outcome you like.
I’m good on all these fronts! Except for “social status” because I’m not really sure what that means. I’m generally well-liked though. But yeah I just can’t change who I’m attracted to. Some of us are just not as good looking as others even if we are fit and are financially secure lol. The problem is the inability to be attracted to “regular looking” people. It’s like if you were only attracted to ultra attracted celeb appearing people.
If your desired population doesn’t respond to your social or financial status - you need to keep improving it.
Don’t spend so much time online, spend time with real people. Evolution isn’t a static thing, your designed to maximize your local situation; Don’t let social media, porn, television set your standards.
Sounds like you have internalized body dysphoria for other people… like the guy who falls in love with his Manga characters and nobody in real life can measure up.
If your desired population doesn’t respond to your social or financial status - you need to keep improving it.
Have you tried being rich?
its super effective!
I don’t have “internalized body dysphoria for other people”. I don’t even understand what that’s supposed to mean. That’s not even a thing.
I have a significantly reduced ability/capacity for attraction. I fall on the asexual spectrum, which is difficult because it means I am not compatible with 99% of “real people”. My only hope is finding similar people online, but it has been difficult considering the infantessimally small pool I’m working with.
If you identify as asexual then why are you upset with partner selection?
Because it’s lonely?
No matter who I meet, everyone prioritizes their SO or family over me. But I totally understand why they do so. I’m only a friend and I’m not at offended by this. They SHOULD prioritize these people over me.
But I just wish I also had someone who we would both equally prioritize one another above all else. A friend for life. Not one who will just fade away one day and you never see them again. Someone to spend my time with and to grow old together.
I’m not really sure why so many sexual people assume that asexuals don’t need to have human interaction. It means I don’t have a sexual need. It doesn’t mean that I don’t have a social need and a need for connection.
I would like to be different. I would like to be able to connect deeply with others. I would like to be like all of you here. But I can’t.
You have a large buffet of friends to choose from… and one sad reality in couples is one of them will “leave” first, so handling change is just part of life.
I get that relationships are not necessarily permanent, but they have a greater chance to last “til death” than friendships. And people don’t buy a house or raise children with their friends.
The problem is the inability to be attracted to “regular looking” people.
The problem is that you’re shallow. That’s a personality problem. Improve your personality until you see the people around you as more than objects.
I’m just confused. If you can’t choose to be gay or straight, then how can I choose to increase my attraction to others? I love and care very deeply about a great number of people, but I don’t want to make out with them or fuck them.
A lot of people here are pointing out the fact that leagues don’t exist, and that is true. But there’s a bigger issue here that’s not being brought up, which is that you’re viewing relationships as mutual infatuation. That’s not what relationships are.
Love is a conscious choice. You love with your mind, not with your heart. You don’t need to be infatuated with someone to love them. And frankly, I would argue that infatuation is a huge negative in a relationship, because it causes you to make irrational choices that will put strain on the relationship. If you aren’t attracted to your date, the proper thought process should be:
“That sucks, but it’s not a dealbreaker. Do I feel like I will still be friends with this person after years of living together? After learning all of this person’s bad habits? After being annoyed to hell and back by this person, do I see myself still choosing to value this person?”
If the answer is yes, then you’ve got yourself a potential partner that you might love.
Another thing to point out is that physical attraction is very tightly related to the people you’ve been around. It’s not uncommon for someone to find their partner increasingly attractive over time.
Improve yourself.
While this is always good advice, some things just aren’t really changeable without cosmetic surgery. I have a good BMI and whatnot, but I’m definitely not a supermodel. But say you’re only attracted to supermodels for some stupid reason and you can’t fix that.
Looks can give you a boost/foot in the door but they are only part of the equation. Personality is what makes or brakes your chances and will take you further in the long run. Tons of good looking people are “willing to settle” for less attractive partners they enjoy spending time with rather than going with “someone on their level” who’s as engaging as a piece of wet cardboard.
Be someone people want to interact with and your chances to find a supermodel will increase significantly.
Also, just because you don’t think you’re 10/10 doesn’t mean others don’t find you attractive. Many decent looking people tend to underestimate their attractiveness when, with a little work (proper clothing, basic hygiene and a new haircut), they could start turning heads left and right.
Super models aren’t somehow wired to only like other super models. A person’s outwards looks don’t tell you what they find attractive. When you see gorgeous celebrity couples, they’re only getting that coverage because they’re both gorgeous (Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt). Some remaining romance coverage goes towards couples where one is gorgeous and the other is talented/accomplished (Aubrey Plaza and Jeff Baena). The other 99% of couples don’t get any media attention because it’s not fun to talk about #4 sexiest woman of 2021 and her husband, extra #4.
It’s completely normal to be attracted to super models. They are literally chosen as excellent candidates for conventionally attractive builds and then dolled up to close the gap on perfection. Keep in mind, you’re probably ignoring a huge swath of models that aren’t your flavor of perfection as that varies between cultures and ethnicities. What you can hopefully realize is those perfect images have a ton of work done to the “base” person by makeup, lighting, camera angle, and photoshop. They’re generally not real. Such gorgeous celebrities are so far from their perfected image that they often go unrecognized in public if not for some unique visual trait. Even just having an unfamiliar accent makes people doubt the identity.
You want a real shock (assuming you’re a straight male)? Look up your favorite porn stars without makeup. The picture is out there.
You don’t need to change your lust for super models, just hopefully come to realize they’re a fantasy. And more than anything, those perfect 21 year old looks won’t last. They may be perfect for 30 or perfect for 40, but not for 21. And that’s OK. Your opinion will change as you age yourself. 8th grade me though high schoolers were adults. Now I don’t even want to be seen with the babies called “college students”.
You never know who will walk into your life. You’ll never know what they’re thinking.
I don’t think you guys are understanding. I cannot force myself to be attracted to “personality”. It doesn’t work that way for me. I absolutely wish I could. I understand that it’s “shallow”. I understand that looks aren’t forever. I understand that celebs only get photos when they look their best. But I still cannot force attraction that isn’t there. I have people that I enjoy their company a ton and care for them a lot, but I don’t get attracted to them. It’s like…you don’t get attracted to your mom.
I don’t “lust” for anyone… especially not porn stars. I have the opposite problem that you’d think. I have a significantly reduced capacity for attraction compared to other people. I talk about celeb appearances because they are just barely able to register on my radar. Masturbating doesn’t even work for me. So no, I don’t have a porn addiction. I’ve only very rarely even looked it up out of curiosity and it didn’t do much.
Do you feel lust and sexual attraction to these super models?
Not really. Minimal sexual attraction very occasionally. Which is more than the 0 ever attraction to people I meet irl.
I’m only vaguely with the concept, but have you looked into asexualism? It sounds to me more like a generally low sex drive as opposed to only liking the most beautiful 0.01% on the planet.
Stop focusing on your looks. Become someone who: likes themselves, is funny, is caring, is growing their career, is good fixing things, is strong, is a leader, helps others, can sing well, or something else.
Unexpectedly, showing progress is nearly as important than the end state. Someone growing their career and becoming funny, gets most of the points for having a good career and being funny (note actual progress, not day dreaming).
My advice is to pursue whatever you guess will help you like yourself, but that is not necessary.
I think you all are misunderstanding my question. I tried to phrase it in a general way so that it could potentially apply to other people. But you all are misinterpreting what I am saying.
I am absolutely not saying that I’m ugly. I am perfectly average looking to maybe slightly below average looking. I don’t generally like to admit any of the following out loud because I don’t like to brag. But I am fit, nice, funny, well liked, and have a very good job making good money.
There are plenty of people that look “regular” like me. “Regular” people seem to be very occasionally attracted to me. I am only attracted to ultra attractive people. Ultra attractive people are not the norm and are an outlier. It doesn’t matter how much “personality” someone has for me. It doesn’t make me attracted to them. I have been on dates with sweet, caring, funny, normal people like me. I don’t have the capacity for attraction to them. I understand that it makes me “shallow”, but I cannot choose this attraction. Many times I wish I had the capacity to feel attraction to those around me, but I cannot.
Yeah I just know that there’s basically no overlap in the venn diagram of people I find attractive and people that would be interested in me, and it’s just easier not to try, so I don’t.
There’s a way to bring those circles together. Focus on improving yourself.
