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Hey hey these two things aren’t mutually exclusive!
True and acceptable, however I don’t feel patriotic.
I don’t either in the typical “my country is the best” way, more like “my country is democratic and that’s why it’s good (also use your influence to make democracy more commonplace pls)”.
You just defined nationalism (“my country is better, fuck the others”) vs. patriotism (“I love my country and will defend its values”)
And if they’re both rotten, well there’s always a common enemy.
Yeah, the problem in the US for an example is nationalism, not patriotism. True patriots would be fuming at what’s going on. It’s the nationalists that cheer on.
Americans are very good at cognitive dissonance and arrogance.
It’s mainly about fuck Muskytrump & cia. not generally all US = crap, valid only for certain collectives.
o7
I’m an American,and I boycott US products because they’re shit quality.
Before all this we used to say “Chinese quality, German price”
That’s the most accurate description that I have ever heard.
You serious? I get great US made clothes.
I don’t hate all Americans, I’ve met some really cool ones over the years. But I do hate its fake democracy, its vulgar, parasitic oligarchs, its deceitful propaganda networks and the lust for war and global domination that drenches all three.
American exceptionalism is basically a circle-jerk.
That’s been my biggest problem with the pretty low number of americans I have actually met. They’ve all been so fucking obnoxious and look-at-me-I’m-better-because-'Murica.
Not just that but the lies? Holy shit the amount of lies I’ve had to listen to. American dude told me he just kinda woke up in my european city after having been drinking and doing drugs. When he came to he realised he’d bought a house after landing. Told me he was going to be mayor in my city because he thought most danes would really like his american values. Like in what fucking world can a person be so fucking delusional to think anyone would believe that? That’s not how any of this fucking works! Thankfully that’s the worst one I’ve met.
You boycot american products because you think you are american.
I don’t because America is a continent not a single country.
This. I’ve gotten some pushback on it, but I believe the US shouldn’t own the term “American”. I say that as a US American.
So… USian?
Yank
I hate this argument. The term America has been used to refer to the US for so long now that it’s colloquially the same.
The term “USian” is just as bad as “American” if you really give a fuck about the names of countries because the USA is not the only “United States” they could be part of either. If you’re gonna try to find a word that is instantly recognizable as “citizen of the United States of America” why not just use the one that literally billions of people already use every day?
Because we don’t agree with the US’s imperialist co-option of that term to exclude the majority of americans.
How about we call them “Union Members” seeing as they’re part of “the Union” as decreed by their founding fathers? Instead of bulldozing over all of the other “United States” in America and the world by replacing the imperialist “American” with the… Somehow less imperialist “United States Ian”?
why not just use the one that literally billions of people already use every day
Estadounidense?
If you’re speaking Spanish, and that’s the colloquial term in your region, yes. That’s exactly how linguistics work.
Yanquis
Could be wrong, but I think that might only be true for English.
In Spanish, American (the demonym) translates to “estadounidense” and in French there’s “étasunien” that basically translate to “USian”. While some get offended, it’s more accurate and avoids the automatic imperialism.
What is the official name of Mexico?
Meh hee koh.
So are you being intentionally obtuse or just can’t be bothered to debate in good faith?
USican
They don’t “own” anything. In multiple languages another correct way to name them is the equivalent of Unitedstadian, this is true for French and Spanish.
Hi, nice to meet you. Where are you from? America. Oh, like Mexico or Chile?
It’s always fun to see their faces :)
Anti-imperialism would make more sense. The US is not the only asshole… (Edit: Just the current worst one.)
When it comes to contemporary imperialist assholery the US is #1 by far. Since after WW2 they’ve been nothing but shitting on humanity, between the CIA installing puppet dictators to wars (open and secret) killing tens of millions. The list of countries they have fucked with is too long to post here.
And now their former closest allies are annexation targets.
The USSR was a shitty little bitch during her heyday, too. Worse than the US? I’m not sure. Eastern Europe and South America probably have a major difference of opinion there.
In the last few decades I feel like Russia may have the US beat?
If you seriously think either the USSR or modern Russia were/are worse than the USA, you need some perspective.
Certainly not, but currentky very high in the ranking.
You think we’re the worst country on the planet at the present moment in 2025? Interesting.
Edit: oh, ml
The US empire currently maintains an imperialist network of over 800 military bases in 70 countries. (For comparison, all other countries combined have only 30 bases)
I’m not looking at opportunity for evil as a metric, just actual evil. Do you think the us causes the most direct suffering?
Absolutely, yes. No other country comes anywhere near what the US empire inflicts on the world daily.
Where is the comparison metric?
Yes. The vast extent of the negatives of maintaining a brutal Empire and the dedication towards thoroughly punishing anyone going against that system makes the US Empire the worst country on the planet.
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I boycott american products because they simply are not worth their price
That’s a pretty Liberal take from someone using a “Lemmygrad” account.
I don’t see how it’s liberal, Marxists don’t take a vow of poverty or reject the laws of economics. US-made products generally are higher priced compared to equivalent performance due to Imperialism inflating costs of production in the Global North.
Fair enough.
a liberal take would be to consume something only based by its place of origin
Does this mean Europeans will also boycott goods that they steal from the 17 countries they still have colonized?
No? Oh.
Ah, good ole whataboutism.
It’s not whataboutism when my entire ideology is anti-nationalism. You don’t get it, do you? I want all of the Western imperialist nations to collapse, including the European ones.
Your rhetoric is weak and outdated, still viewing the world through borders. You think Musk gives a fuck about borders? Grow up.
Why stop at the western nations?
Yes, let all the empires fall. By default, boycotting goods made by slave labor/colonization would apply to TEMU, Apple, etc.
3 of these 17 territories are colonies of the USA (American Samoa, Guam, Virgin Islands).
When it comes to Europe the extortion of former colonies might be the bigger problem (the Franc Zone or the ongoing exploitation of African ressources).
Right. But, I’m an American who strives to boycott goods produced by slave labor and/or colonization by my own government because I believe class solidarity transcends borders.
The BuyEuropean movement is largely nationalistic and uninterested in class solidarity. Don’t get me wrong, I think the entire world should be boycotting American goods. Let the empire collapse, please.
But, boycotting American goods while still exploiting the Global South for centuries is not a flex.
You will never convince a majority of Western people of boycotting anything for a moral reason.
They boycott America because they finally feel threatened. Just take the W and let them boycott America.
You will never convince a majority of Western people of boycotting anything for a moral reason.
And they will probably stop boycotting when the America fascist-meter drop from 100% to the normal 88%
That is very likely. But the American economy is feeble right now. Trump picked a bad timing to go on a tirade.
American Evangelicals and Zionists are bankrolling European far right parties as well. Europe cutting off America is better for the whole world.
You right lol
The post only says they’re “Anti-American”. It never said they were anti-American for any of the good reasons.
Seems libe something I’d xome across in r/2westerneurope4you
I was feeling more “American that hates their government” vibes
Not all are easy to boycott
US products > GitHub, Steam (Valve), Dropbox, Oracle, nVidia, Intel, IBM, eBay, Amazon, UPS, FedEx, Pepsi, CocaCola, Microsoft, Google, Pfitzer, Nike…, Which of these support Trump and needs to be avoided because of this? Not even FOSS is a Guarantee. Gimp, GNU Project, Mozilla.org, TOR, even a lot of Linux distros are from the US
Full list of US companies https://fortune.com/ranking/fortune500/?global500_y_n=true
apart from foss content in which you can simply pick the source code and compile on your machine, or fork or reverse engineer them, in some cases you can either p!rate it outright (hello, ms and riaa!) or have already well established alternatives in your country (sodas, online commerce platform).
either way, you’re not taking down the u.s. by claiming ethical consumption. there’s no such thing under capitalism. the best thing you can do is organize and take down the system that enables big companies that own us.
Yes, FOSS can be forked and gut the code, if you know how to do it. With big apps with millons of lines it is not so easy, less for an normal user, apart to the subsequent maintenance and updates.
no one has got to do everything. the reasons that make some particular software bad for people using them sometimes cannot be simply addressed by technical skills alone, and politics here is the tool.
I always prefer EU soft if they are good alternatives, but I use also an californian search engine since 2 years, with AI, Andisearch, from a small startup, independent, own LLM, also against big brother companies and even surpassing the EU GDPR rule. Until now I found nothing better and more accurate. If a product is good, ethic and usefull, not biased by politic interests, the country of origin is irrelevant.
A lot of these are easy to boycott
Yes, there are a lot of good alternatives out there, but the question is in which products it make sense to boycott. Those from big companies definitively, those from small startups and particular and independent devs or communities, questionable, probably not. Do you want to boycott Gimp? It’s from a californian organisation, for sur it don’t make sense to boycott.
You forgot AMD there. Intel alone would be super easy to avoid. But AMD is also based in the US. You kinda need either AMD or Intel if you want to own a useful computer. Or there’s Apple Silicon, but that’s still American. Qualcomm laptop offerings are not that great yet and guess what, it’s also an American company.
This is all a lot harder to boycott than Coca Cola, Nike, etc. I can just buy local soft drinks and Adidas shoes. In fact I currently own Adidas shoes (I’m the kinda guy who buys one pair of shoes, wears the everloving fuck out of them, then buys another pair and the old pair gets used in the garage afterwards) and my clothes already come from European owned brands (that are probably made in Bangladesh or something, I don’t buy a lot of expensive clothes). UPS and FedEx aren’t hard to avoid either. Most of my shit gets delivered via Omniva, DHL or Itella.
The x86-64 CPU monopoly that the US has might honestly be the hardest American thing to avoid. The cloud monopoly is even bigger and we all tend to interact with it in one way or another, but most of us could host our own shit on Hetzner or OVH if needed, so at least no need to directly give them money.
The CPU monopoly can change, until now there are only Russian and Chinese alternatives to nVidia and AMD, but also the EU is on the march with Rhea. We’ll see.
But yes, currently there are no real alternatives yet, …well https://techtelegraph.co.uk/open-source-alternative-to-x86-and-arm-could-take-off-in-2025/
I don’t want to buy Russian or Chinese any more than I want to buy American. Rhea is interesting, but seems only targeted at HPC and uses ARM cores. Now RISC-V on the other hand… Damn I do hope it takes off. I suppose it’s dependent on software support as much as actual CPU support, so once I can actually buy a RISC-V machine, I’ll see if there’s anything I can do to widen RISC-V support in the FOSS world. I’m sure there are plenty of projects that will build without a whole load of modifications needed, but need someone to configure the build targets and test.
Yes but already a long way ahead, but at least the way is there.
lidl cola is best
Buy alternatives for whatever is easy to avoid. Buy what is unavoidable.
why not both?
there is problems with the buy european movement as outlines in other comments here, but as an American: please continue boycotting us, the chances of our government changing for the better are slim, but every bit of protest matters.
I’ve noticed a significant drop in people using the phrase “America bad” as a mocking jibe, since it no longer really works as a hyperbolic statement.
It was always bad, but for many years its energy resources were unmatched, so no country could keep up.
Today the gap is not so big anymore.It’s too easy to reply “it is” at this point for sure.
“Fuck America” is more common these days.
I don’t get it
Pro-Euro vs anti-US. The “buy European” movement is generally occupied by a mixture of genuine anti-US protestors, as well as various European nationalists. Kinda like how cottagecore got captured by the far-right, the lack of a cohesive line is leading to some groups pushing Euro-flavored fascism as an alternative to US-flavored fascism, as far right parties increasingly gain ground in the EU.
You can’t generalize so much, the reasons are much broader. It is mainly that it is not desirable that a single country controls the largest part of the internet, and until now that the EU depends almost entirely to applications and services of the US, which, especially in the current situation and the policy of Trump, this dependency and subordination will have dire consequences. Is to promote the technology of european, to convert the EU as a sovereign state at the height of the eye with the current giants technologicas that account for all the market, many times abusive. Monopolies are never desirable, because they tend to be destructive…
Generalizations will always miss finer details, I agree, but this is a phenomenon I have noticed.
The main reason, at least for me, is the mencioned. Too long the EU was the Frog, boiled by the US.
I Boycott American products because I’m 3 ‘once-in-a-lifetime’ recessions deep and cannot afford them
Anti-American is fucking weird.
How about get to the root that most of us here have in common? Even half of the Americans agree with the below principles.
Anti-consumerism for the sake of consuming. Anti-greed. Anti harming others for your own selfish gains. Anti-billionaires. Anti-waste and harming the planet.
Let me break down for you why I’m anti-American. History and the absolute disregard for life the US promotes, as illustrated by the grim list below:
1. Direct Military Deaths (Combat & Bombing):
- Korean War (1950-1953): Estimates vary widely, but civilian deaths in Korea are generally placed between 2 and 4 million. US military actions contributed significantly to this toll through bombing campaigns and ground combat. A reasonable attribution for direct/indirect deaths attributable to the US is 600,000 - 1,500,000.
- Vietnam War (1955-1975): This is where the largest numbers lie. Estimates of Vietnamese civilian deaths range from 2 million to over 4 million. US bombing campaigns (Operation Rolling Thunder, Linebacker I & II) and ground operations were major contributors. Estimated US attribution: 1,000,000 - 3,800,000.
- Laos (Secret War – 1964-1973): US bombing of Laos was extensive and largely secret. Civilian deaths are estimated at tens of thousands to over 100,000. Estimated US attribution: 20,000 - 100,000.
- Cambodia (Bombing – 1969-1973): As mentioned previously, estimates range from 50,000 to over 500,000. Estimated US attribution: 50,000 - 500,000.
- Iraq (Gulf War 1991 & Iraq War 2003-2011): The Gulf War resulted in tens of thousands of civilian deaths due to bombing and sanctions. The Iraq War is even more complex, with estimates ranging from hundreds of thousands to over a million. Estimated US attribution: 100,000 - 750,000.
- Afghanistan (2001-2021): Civilian deaths are estimated in the tens of thousands. Estimated US attribution: 20,000 - 40,000.
- Libya (2011): As mentioned previously, airstrikes contributed to an estimated 25,000-30,000 civilian deaths. Estimated US Attribution: 5,000 – 15,000.
- Other Interventions/Conflicts (Grenada, Panama, Somalia, Balkans, Syria): These smaller interventions resulted in fewer direct military deaths but still contributed to overall casualties. Estimated US attribution: 5,000 - 20,000.
2. Indirect Deaths (Famine, Disease, Conflict Disruption):
- Korea: Sanctions and disruption of agriculture likely led to famine-related deaths. Estimates are difficult but could be in the hundreds of thousands.
- Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia: Displacement, destruction of infrastructure, and disruption of healthcare systems contributed to disease outbreaks and malnutrition. Estimates range from hundreds of thousands to over a million.
- Iraq (Sanctions after Gulf War): UN sanctions imposed with US support are widely believed to have contributed significantly to civilian deaths due to lack of food and medicine. Estimates vary wildly, ranging from tens of thousands to over 1 million. This is the most contentious area of attribution.
- Somalia: The “Black Hawk Down” incident and subsequent interventions disrupted aid efforts and exacerbated famine conditions.
Estimated Indirect Deaths attributable to US actions: 500,000 - 2,000,000+ (This is a very broad range due to the difficulty in isolating US influence).
3. Colonial Era (Philippines, etc.):
- Philippine-American War (1899-1902): Estimates of Filipino deaths range from 200,000 to over 1 million. This includes combat deaths and those due to disease and famine exacerbated by the conflict. Estimated US attribution: 100,000 - 600,000.
- Other Colonial Actions: Smaller incidents in other territories are difficult to quantify but likely resulted in additional deaths.
Overall Estimated Range of Deaths Attributable to US Foreign Interventions Since 1945:
Combining all categories (direct military, indirect, and colonial era), a reasonable estimate falls within the range of 2.5 million to over 8 million deaths. It is crucial to understand that this is an estimate based on available data and methodologies, and the true number could be higher or lower. The wide range reflects the inherent uncertainties in these calculations.
Regarding CIA-Installed Dictatorships:
While a precise count is difficult, historians generally identify at least 10-20 countries where US involvement (including covert operations by the CIA) played a significant role in installing or supporting authoritarian regimes since 1945. Examples include:
- Iran (1953)
- Guatemala (1954)
- Chile (1973)
- Brazil (multiple interventions)
- Argentina (multiple interventions)
- Greece (1947-1949)
- Philippines (various periods)
- Indonesia (1965)
- Nicaragua (1980s)
- Afghanistan (1980s)
This list is not exhaustive, and the degree of US influence in each case varies.
Incredible comment!
I’ll also mention that the number of people affected by these interventions and wars are much higher then the death toll.
Laos was the most bombed country on Earth and both Vietnam and Laos, to this day, still teach kids how to identify bombs on the ground since a lot of them did not detonate and still cause harm and death.
In Vietnam, the US used Agent Orange, a chemical weapon that sticks to your skin, which to this day still causes birth defects.
North Korea was bombed to oblivion. US bombing campaign was so brutal, soldiers reported not having anywhere else left to bomb. I recommend this video to know more about the Korean War. (Just use youtube auto translate subtitles)
Also in US-backed dictatorships, the number of deaths might not be as big as in their direct interventions, but the sheer number of affected people, those being detained and tortured is absurd. Not to speak of the torture methods these dictatorships implemented in these countries, the torture people endured here in Brazil is gut wrenching.
I think that means you do not like American government and foreign policy.
Not the American people.
I think that’s the line that becomes vague when you say “anti-American”.
Americans in history have been trying to fight the evil machine and have been assassinated or villianized.
- JFK
- MLK
- Edward Snowden
I’ll also say that other countries are not without blame. There is no reason why other countries should have trusted another country to protect them.
Every country should have invested a healthy amount into their armies and never let one country get so powerful.
Or exploit their populace for pennies. (INDIA/MEXICO COUGH)
Imperialism is the devil on this planet but were all responsible for not fighting back against the machine or uniting the world working class.
We have the technology now with things like the fediverse. The doors are open for now for open communication and coordination.
Wow, so not only you’re justifying the present actions of your government but you also manage to slide in some victim-blaming in the process.
I fucking despise America’s principles. It’s stolen land built on genocide and perpetuated by constant war.
Victim blaming who? The UK taught America how to exploit and also did the same. Heck they even did it better in terrifying way.
Other countries just now thought of adjusting their GDP to account for not relying on the American Military.
Can you explain to me how that is not oversight? How that is not irresponsible?
Im Mexican American so I understand how the fucking border flew over my people.
But there isn’t a black and white villian here. Plenty of powerful people in multiple countries help create the reality and dynamics of the countries.
American principles? There hasn’t been a united states of America to have unified principles since our inception. It was just loud propaganda to tell us so.
I don’t even think we should be this big. You know how many countries are unified in ideals because they are monoculture, monotheist, monoracial? Were not it.
But its also what makes us beautiful. Being a melting pot not often seen in a majority of countries.
I’ll also say that other countries are not without blame. There is no reason why other countries should have trusted another country to protect them.
Every country should have invested a healthy amount into their armies and never let one country get so powerful.
Jesus fucking Christ, do you believe in meritocracy?
All of the issues you list as the real problem are currently magnified by the US Empire. Without the US Empire, progress on these fronts would be far easier.
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