Keep it polite, folks. No personal attacks against others, especially speculations regarding mental or emotional capabilities.
I honestly think the whole Linux community should be reading that sub rather than acting like Linux is perfect. Right now desktop Linux is for very tech savvy people who are willing to put in the time to learn and fix, and it’s for their grandmas who only need a web browser and maybe a word processor. Anyone who thinks differently needs to get their head out of the sand. I use Fedora.
linux is terrible because removing the entire root folder can brick your system it should be more like windows where removing system32 can brick your system
The mention of UEFI in this context likely means they are thinking of a deletion recursing through sysfs and by extension deleting all visible UEFI variables which, in some firmware editions and versions, causes it not to be able to get through post or into the setup menu.
I vaguely recall this and the general issue was very bad firmware design, but it was possible to make it impossible to even reinstall a system. If you were industrious in windows you could have done the same thing, so malware under windows could also brick such platforms.
Of course rm has more safeguards on it so you have to pass more flags and really really be asking it to try to screw things up.
Like you said, it was just some early implementations of UEFI. I haven’t heard of anything like this happening recently.
Also the kernel makes those variable immutable by default now, except the well known standard ones, so even for buggy UEFI this is mitigated nowadays. Just pointing out it came from a once legitimate space as a consequence of “everything is a file in a monolithic file namespace”. Which on the one hand is bad if someone uses rm with all sorts of flags to overrule the “you don’t want to do this” protections in the utility. On the other hand what you accidentally managed to do in Linux represented a problem that windows malware could have exploited.
Also the kernel makes those variable immutable by default now
More specifically it has done that for the last 8 years :-D
Nice to know.
So, I would assume the firmware gave write access to a part of permanent memory, critical to starting the system.
I feel like that would be someone like me, thinking of it as a feature and giving the possible values for those variables in the readme. And of course, who reads the readme even though it says “READ ME”?
UEFI defines a structured way to have data shared with OS as read write variables, including the ability to create, modify, and delete variables that UEFI can see.
However, some firmware used this facility to store values and then their code assumed the variables would always be there. The code would then crash when it goes to read a deleted variable and not know what to do. The thing is deleting those variables per spec is a perfectly valid the due the OS to do, but firmware was buggy and the bugs not caught because normally OS would not bother those variables except for a few standard popular ones, like boot order.
So flashing the firmware would “solve” the issue? As in, it should rewrite the variables missing (and everything else), making the hardware usable again?
Generally speaking, these platforms are not flashable unless they can boot a flash utility, assuming that whatever prior firmware is running is at least in good enough shape to boot to an update environment.
There are designs to be robust and accessible even in the face of all this, but relatively rare, effectively unheard of in laptop market. Even some of those emergency recovery environments may be more limited than you would like to repair this sort of thing.
I see, in that case, that would not be someone like me :P as I tend to care about specifications.
This is a really useful explanation for someone who doesn’t know about the UEFI spec.
I was going to ask why anybody would want to move the root directory and where to but it was a joke right?
I’m a bit bias right now because I tried to install PopOS on a partition last night to see if i could play with it and make a media server. My VPN client failed to install properly, corrupted the OS and when I booted back to the live disk (Rufus made USB) I was able to format the partition but no longer install to it. The boot loader no longer works and it can’t get into any OS now.
I have to say I haven’t had this problem before, but working in IT and installing Windows on over 10 thousand computers in my career, this has happened to none.
(I’ll try another installer likely and format the partition over and see if another bootloader like grub will take and fix the issue).
Edit: changed course and said fuck it… formatted the entire drive and so much for the other data that was there. Clean install maybe the VPN client won’t botch everything this time.
Bootloader no worky can be caused by a hundred different issues. The installer may have removed the kernel or a CPIO archive (initramfs or processor microcode) that the bootloader needs. You could be missing some EFI program. If the boot entry is set to identify the root filesystem by its UUID, formatting/reinstalling would have changed the real UUID and then the bootloader wouldn’t be able to find it. Maybe installing the OS simply wiped or damaged that partition.
If you have to reinstall the OS, you should also reinstall the bootloader (the OS installer usually lets you do that from the GUI), or if you’re confident, update the boot entries to reflect the state of the computer. I strongly recommend using btrfs as your root filesystem instead of ext4, and use Timeshift to set up regular snapshots (btrfs) or backup clones (ext4) in case this happens again.
Darn, wish I would have read this prior to restarting the install after wiping the disk. I would have tried btrfs, it defaulted to ext4 as the machine was using mbr previously and not uefi for the boot, so I Rufus popped up with ext4 recommended and I ran with it
Ext4 is still perfectly fine. It’s a mature technology, and much more stable than btrfs. Your experience will not be any different because of this.
I still recommend using Timeshift. The only downside is that only the Rsync backup method will be available, which creates a full on-disk copy of your system files.
Thanks I’ll try it out once I set up the media server and figure out storage setup. Right now it just has an old 256ssd (sata) for the boot drive, originally was just taking 50gb for that and was going to use old 7200 drives for media storage. I assume I’ll need to have the time shift backups running to one of the other drives or it would be useless if the drive dies.
Yes, it’s best to store them on a separate hard drive. The target partition must be formatted as a Linux filesystem (ext2/3/4 or btrfs) in order to retain file ownership and permissions. I have a 512 GB partition on a hard drive reserved for the last three weekly backups and never ran out of space.
Most Linux haters have skill issue. I mean you can apply a complete Windows-mimicking skin to Ubuntu or Mint and use that
I think a large portion of it comes from an intolerance for troubleshooting issues with their hardware drivers. Nvidia has definitely been a huge part of this over the years with their limited Linux support, but other hardware manufacturers are also sometimes hostile towards anything but Windows support.
I think there is a vocal population of Nvidia GPU users who see their very expensive graphics card working well under Windows but having some crippling problems with whatever drivers are available on Linux, so they blame Linux. They don’t take the time to understand the complexity of the situation, and I’m not sure that it matters that they do at the end of the day.
People should just use what works for them. Nobody should try to be a purist about tools or entertainment. I’ve been a professional system admin for both Linux and Windows, and while I have an unshakable preference for Linux and open source software in general, I will use whatever tool I need to use. Fusion 360 is a piece of software that has been great for my CAD needs, but I’ve had trouble making it work reliably through WINE, so I just boot to a Windows installation on a SFF PC I keep around specifically for 3D printing stuff. No big deal.
I love how he complains about being “brigaded” when the most comments on any post in the community is like 8.
The community definitely has been brigaded though, as every single post (except one that is negative to Microsoft) has been downvoted to oblivion.
‘Brigading’ would be if pro-Linux communities were organizing to specifically target another community.
The fediverse is likely to attract the kinds of people interested in Linux in the first place, and all the negative attention that community attracts comes organically.
I talked with the user a bit in Linux_vs_Windows before they were booted from the community, and it’s my opinion that they just have a hate-boner going for Linux. It’s possible to have valid criticism of Linux, but they go way past legitimate and straight into obsession territory. They tend to post in that community daily. So their points aren’t exactly great (though sometimes they hit on a good meme) and they get the points they get naturally.
It’s not a conspiracy, their arguments just tend to be shit.
I read a really egregious childish and angry comment that had nothing to do with linux, and it went on so badly I checked the persons post history up, something I very rarely do, guess who it was…
I also already had that linux hate community blocked, it was so low effort when it wasn’t just outright wrong.
That, and due to the relatively small nature of the fediverse, simply being in the new tab makes things likely to be seen for quite a bit, enough for ~8 users to come in and explain how backwards they’re being.
Wow, I assumed this was just some lighthearted trolling. I think they might actually be upset.
Gotta protect the microsoft stocks.
Funny that there’s a meme against open source on lemmy
rm -rf /can brick your systemWell good thing there’s basically no legitimate reason to ever even use
rm -rf /anyway so GNU version is perfectly within its rights to refuse to do that by default, am I right? If you know what you’re doing and want to nuke partitions, that’s whatcfdiskandmkfsare for, dammitYeah like so could deleting system32, and there were plenty of memes about that also.
‘Bricked’ in this sense meaning not that you’d just trash your OS and need a reinstall, but that it could actually stop your computer from booting at all. So the system32 analogy doesn’t exactly fit.
It’s because some motherboards implement UEFI in a way that allows important variables to be overwritten by I/O processes. Executing
sudo rm -rf /*would recursively go into the EFI parameters folder where the kernel mounts EFI variables and attempt to delete things. Some motherboards allowed these delete operations to remove things in the motherboard’s firmware it needs to complete POST, thus rendering the motherboard useless.But that’s a problem with the motherboard, not with Linux or Windows. The same damage can be caused by Windows.
rm -rf / won’t even run. Only sudo rm -rf / --no-preserve-root will
Really? Let me tr
yeah but what about
rm -rf ../../../.../var/lib/../../?
For whatever reason, Reddit’s algorithm decided I should start seeing that community, and I’ve always struggled to figure out if it’s just Linux users shitposting, or if there are people out there who really just have huge boners for Microsoft
It started out as ironic shit posting which attracted and built an unironic hate/conspiracy community
It’s happened over and over and over again lol
I’m inclined to think former. Excepting X box players, I’ve never actually met anyone in real life who actually likes Microsoft. Only people who are forced to use it, and don’t feel like migrating to greener pastures.
I also thought it was Linux shitposting, but I’ve had a few comments deleted there. I think they seriously hate Linux for some reason.
As a heavy Linux user, the more I use it, the more shit I talk on it.
Reddit?
Yeah, Reddit’s got /r/linuxsucks
That’s hilarious. Is that one also run by 2 mods that are the only ones that post?
I honestly don’t know, but that would be hilarious
Omg the downvotes in that community 🤣
The real solution is to install HaikuOS on your mum’s computer
OnlY TempleOS is the one true divine solution.
the one and only mod there was practically the only poster.
it was honestly sad to see how much anger they harbored against a platform that literally doesn’t care.
So that meme reminds me of a prank.
There was once I had the same exact laptop as a buddy, but wasn’t using it anymore. He was finishing his degree and just about to turn in like 8 papers/assignments and had a ton of work saved on it. So I wiped my laptop and installed fresh Kubuntu, and then swapped the drives when he wasn’t looking. Then I pretended to have done him a favor since he had been having intermittent windows problems.
He was livid but was trying so hard to be kind, loool. Made it better when I could swap it right back and everything was there
That’s just mean lol
That prank is so mischievous.
It was so good because I could be as rotten as I wanted, there was zero lasting harm. He immediately forgave me and found it amazing once he booted up the original drive and made sure it was all good
When I removed the knife from his throat he immediately assured me that he didn’t have any grievances whatsoever.
That was just a huge dick move.
Maybe if afterwards I showed him the knife was made of painted wood, blunted completely, and I snuck a throat protector in his turtleneck.
I did more things like checking a windows install on my laptop first, and cloning his drive off before I pulled it.
We would regularly pull pranks on each other, the rule was it couldn’t cause lasting harm. This fit well within that, and he got me at least as good multiple times. One of my best friends, ever
Your lack of empathy is appalling. Not your fault, but it’s not considered normal to not understand that stressing out someone is really bad. It’s a psycopathic trait, check this out.
And here we have the reason why online psychological diagnosis is considered malpractice, especially over text in a single session
I’m a highly empathetic person, to the point it causes me difficulties in life, especially in male relationships. I did this specific prank because I knew he personally would love it and he was already highly stressed and needed a break. It worked out great, both for our friendship and his college career.
But thanks for the completely useless, unfounded, and insulting armchair diagnosis. Perhaps in the future your time might be better spent figuring out your compulsive need to prove yourself right and the best understander of a situation despite having almost no requisite knowledge
Seems I got under your skin lol.
So what’s the benefit of temporarily putting your friend in distress? What got better as a result of you scaring them?
Um, our relationship? Have you ever had friends where you prank each other? The trust it engenders when you show you can play in that space but still not cause any lasting harm pulls people closer. At least it has in my experience. He’s one of my best friends ever
If someone who I considered a friend pulled that kind of stunt with me I would have one fewer friend. Screwing with people is rude and it’s plain bully behavior when you know they’re stressed and you mess around with a thing that is cruicial for them. You had fun at someone else’s expense.
Or maybe I know my friends better than you do after reading a quick story.
Idk man, maybe if this was the first time we did anything in this realm I could see that, but it’s an established part of our relationship. We trust each other. And maybe some levity with no real stakes actually helped lighten his stress during a difficult time, and that was the whole point? He was spiraling a bit and wouldn’t take a break, so just a bit of fun helped him chill and refocus, IMHO.
He graduated cum laude so I think it all worked out pretty well. I think you need to chill a bit and not assume you know everything about everyone after like 3 lines of text
Lazy stereotyping and wojaks, man that is a bottom tier “community”.
