And apparently, also when you think that ‘They’ is a perfectly serviceable gender-neutral singular pronoun, but are willing to use other pronouns if asked to.
EDIT: Other removable offenses on Blahaj now include questioning mod/admin decisions and quoting the modlog as a reason why you’re leaving.
Dragon is a purity test troll:
By using absurd conversational standards backed by the reasoning of “nontraditional identification / self”, they troll both you, and mods into playing the purity “jump how high” game. If the mods flinch, and tell them to tone it down, the community will eat them alive. If they call you out, the mod has to pull the trigger.
I’m not saying the mods are free from blame, but they are so high on their own supply that banning you is the only option.
Non binary folks deserve respect. Non traditional pronouns are worth respect. The way dragon uses them is a problem because they are inconsistent with any logic… They use them semantically wrong
I don’t think “nontraditional” quite covers it. He, she, they is enough to cover the whole spectrum and anything beyond that is a blatant call for attention that should be discouraged at this point.
There is room to call for more pronouns, but individual and unique monikers are not that. Japan has a range of pronouns that are more useful (or at least more interesting) than what English has, and some languages lack even English’s anemic selection (like, French doesn’t have an official neutral pronoun apparently).
There’s a comment that I read recently that points out how “Anon” (among other words) is technically a pronoun.
I find it interesting, and I thought you might as well.
It’s an interesting point, but in my view, Anon is a pseudonym rather than a pronoun, as it’s used in place of their actual name.
semantically wrong
This, TBH. It’s just speaking in third person. You’d think if it’s not trolling, at least you’d know what a pronoun is, from a grammatical standpoint.
I think that account is a social experiment designed to see how fucking bizarre of a line of bullshit can they force down other people’s throats
Just going to drop this here, it seems relevant.
The effect created by such Internet trolls is not very big, but they manage to make certain forums meaningless because people stop commenting on the articles when these trolls sit there and constantly create an aggressive, hostile atmosphere toward those whom they don’t like. The trolls react to certain news with torrents of mud and abuse. This makes it meaningless for a reasonable person to comment on anything there.
I think there are some people here who have become kung fu masters at the art of straddling the line of acceptable behavior, so that they can remain on the network making everyone’s life unpleasant and bringing nothing of value, while still having a passably plausible claim that they “have a right to be here.” It carries the added bonus of creating division between different factions because some people stick up for them. They’ve often figured out that agglomerating onto tribal hot-buttons like veganism or trans rights is a great way to get knee-jerk support from other members, or at least hesitation to be too quick to ban them, so they can continue to overstay their welcome.
while still having a passably plausible claim that they “have a right to be here.”
… and that you do not, because you called them “they.”
This is Blahaj’s lone overstep and they’re determined to make it a disaster.
Dragonfucker is definitely a troll that walks the line. He should not be handled with kids gloves, he knows exactly what he’s doing.
I’ve said before that dragonfucker is likely an alt of DroneRights just trying a slightly different tactic, I stand by this assessment due to the extensive behavior patterns exhibited by this individual. Including the fact that after I responded to their post on pawb.social accusing me of abuse since I banned their account preemptively, the community [email protected] was created and started posting evil and disgusting things about me while pinging me on every fediverse account I had, as well as outing and harassing anyone who dared report the community. I was also greeted with many disgusting DMs featuring porn. I was also sent death threats.
Horrible messages and mentions by drag's harassment alt
Context: Original post was asking admins to give out my IP address so drag could hunt me down and kill me.
Let us be clear, the reason people say Dragonfucker is a troll is not because of the pronoun thing, that’s a not issue and it detracts from the real issue which is the sealioning and abusive behavior they exhibit.
Oh and I’m almost certain this is the same person as dragonfucker because it happened right after the original post, and this account made some fatal slip-ups. No one actually thinks this wasn’t dragonfucker, I’d be willing to bet money that it was. I can’t think of anyone else who would have a motive to do that to me in that moment.
The issue is just how “free” speech should be, also sometimes referred to as the Nazi bar effect. By allowing all types of “freedom”, others feel not free anymore to speak up, for fear of what will ensue.
Edit: and I thought it was obvious but to make extra clear, it’s also called the paradox of intolerance - somehow allowing people unlimited freedom to speak results in less people being willing to do so.
Yeah, they’ve kinda lost the point.
Don’t know that it’s power tripping because it’s a matter of whether or not you believe that neopronouns are or are not part of trans rights and trans issues. If you do, then they’re maintaining their space as a place for trans and trans adjacent folks to not have to deal with the bullshit of constantly defending and fighting for every single thing.
So I get it. Once you believe that, and you’re maintaining a space for trans people, you absolutely have to draw that line.
I don’t agree with it, but that’s not the point. It doesn’t matter if I agree or not. It only matters that blahaj is a trans space first and above anything else, and they do buy into neopronouns.
They’ve also bought into protecting a couple of trolls because of that, but that’s the down side.
But, yeah, it’s a fucking mess when you can’t even use a broadly accepted neutral term as the default until you have a specific one. Which, being real, keeping track of random online user names and their choice of pronouns just isn’t worth it. Why the fuck should anyone bother?
Irl? Absolutely. You’ve got faces to connect things to. But online, with people that are essentially acquaintances at best, how the fuck are you going to remember that doggyboy19 is the one that uses xexu, but puppyboy18 uses xenu? My dyslexic ass already has enough trouble keeping track of the user names that don’t have partterns that match established words. Neopronouns amount to a random string of lines and circles to me, there’s no fucking pattern to memorize at all, there’s nothing I can use to keep track of them.
Which is going off the topic of your post here, but it’s one of the reasons “they” is a shit ton better. You don’t have dyslexics, people with English as a second or third language trying to have a nice conversation and being treated like an asshole because they can’t follow the randomly chosen garbles used by some of the more absurd neopronoun folks.
I saw this thread very early, didn’t comment though.
Fact is, language doesn’t work by fiat. We already have a genderless pronoun, and it’s the singular they. This has been used at least as far back as Shakespeare.
Gatekeeping whether dragonfucker is a gender is a weird hill to die for. Perhaps equally odd is permabanning for it.
Not featured is the key piece of information. Blahaj is specifically a trans safe space. Pronouns are kind of a big deal in that community. Telling them they aren’t really LGBTQ unless you approve of their pronouns is not going to go over well.
It is all good, everybody is just learning to avoid such places. This how fediverse is developed.
It would be, if that were what happened. What actually happened is someone on a trans instance with a non-binary identity (who, i might note, had the username dragonfucker, afaict extending that term to drag’s gender identity is an embellishment) uses neopronouns, some people got butthurt about it and argued with drag about drag’s identity being “real”, and the admin rightfully drew a line in the sand about misgendering people.
The tl;dr is this dude got told not to intentionally misgender people whether he thinks someone’s identity is valid or not, and he lost his shit over not being allowed to gatekeep queer people on a queer instance and left of his own accord.
We really need to stop complaining about the pronouns shit, the real problem with dragonfucker isn’t with the preferred pronouns, it’s the fact that dragonfucker is known to harass individuals who call them out on their trolling or sealioning or disagree with them in any way they can’t spin as aggressive or hateful.
I was harassed by an alt of this person because I called them out for their behavior when they decided to make a public attack post on me (now deleted) because I preemptively banned their user account and “spouse” account from communities I moderated for trolling, sealioning, and bad faith arguments.
I clarified that politely and reasonably and also properly contacted pawb.social’s admins (since the mentions in their comment weren’t done properly) and the following response was to create @[email protected] and create [email protected] and start spamming it with abusive content attempting to defame, humiliate, intimidate, or even just scare me. That account also sent me porn in my DMs and made rude insults towards me. I was also told to kill myself and also sent death threats, including an invitation for admins to give out my IP address so I could be hunted down and tortured.
I’m almost certain that dragonfucker is the one who did this since it happened immediately after the post which was made on [email protected] complaining about the bans, and also there were many slip-ups by that account which indicated it was an alt belonging to dragonfucker. Unfortunately beyond that dragonfucker likely did a good job at covering their tracks, or Lemmy just sucks at identifying people, probably both, but I’m confident enough that I’d be willing to bet real money it was dragonfucker, the circumstances are way too suspicious.
Edit:
Here are some of the messages and comment mentions from the alt account mentioned in the post, fair warning, they’re not pleasant. Pornographic imagery has been censored.
CW: Abusive content, threats, suicide encouragement, harassment
A lot of contextual information for these isn’t here, to get it the admins of pawb.social and discuss.online would need to be contacted as the content and user accounts associated have been banned.
dragonfucker is known to harass individuals who call them out
The fact that calling them “them” would get your comment deleted is definitely also a problem.
But yeah, this whole mess revolves around one unambiguous asshole. The same crybully keeps coming back with new accounts and new gimmicks to pull the same shit. And it works - because the Blahaj admin takes the most hardline stance possible, and treats all criticism of it as bigotry. So this apparently-unstoppable douchebag just has to whine that someone said “fuck you, troll”, and Ada acts like the rudest part was saying “you.”
As if it’s a slur.
Jesus Christ yeah that’s a lot worse than whatever OP is whining about
Yeah it’s way worse, the pronoun thing that people are whining about isn’t even an actual issue. This type of extreme aggression absolutely is. And even though these offenses were committed on an alt and can’t exactly be concretely proven, dragonfucker has committed other offenses on the [email protected] main account, like encouraging trans people to commit murder-suicide and harassment of user and moderator @[email protected] (something I watched happen in front of me). Dragonfucker is a bad person and it’s really upsetting and concerning that most people don’t understand why, instead just complaining about neopronouns.
Please refer to my comment on this related post: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/34327347/15649022
Fuck blahaj! All my homies hate blahaj🗣️🔥
Fuck blahaj! All my homies have sex with shark plushies🗣️🔥
admin makes a post saying they will enforce the rules around banning people who refuse to use neo pronouns, in a meta community for trans people, and every cis loser has to jump in and play the victim when they get banned for breaking the rules in the post was made to say the rules would be enforced. cry harder.
Shove your blahaj fins up your ass🗣️🙏
Dragonfucker strikes again. The number of posts I’ve seen by him or about him in here is… something
It be super useful having a shared block list like AdBlockers across all social media. Certainly make things a lot more pleasant.
PieFed is working on building such a thing automatically: https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/, although instead of blocking it puts a label next to the username.
I agree with the mods on this one. You don’t go into people’s spaces and tell them they’re living wrong unless they’re actively hurting other people. And at the end of the day, using a different word as a pronoun isn’t going to hurt you. Heck if you have an app you can just tag them with it.
its not the pronouns. its the excuse to behave in a manner which is tyrannical and using made up pronouns to shield you from any criticism.
these places get to a point where inclusivity becomes weaponized. “if you’re not immediately accepting of my specific demands, you’re transphobic. don’t dare ask questions. Cis scum only does that.”
there’s a fairly obvious line between the two. and this seems pretty apparently an attempt to use othergender stuff in a way to control others.
That’s not it. All pronouns are made up. There are people out there right now using Xe/Xim and they’re accepted. If you change languages the words change there too. Identity is consistently a big deal in the trans space, as seen by dead naming and conservative jokes about pronouns.
So we don’t get to make that decision anymore and honestly it’s the easiest thing in the world. They aren’t controlling me by telling me to use their pronouns, for example I can still tell them they’re wrong on an issue, I can still walk away, I can still take an ad out telling the world that person has a bad take, I can still ignore them or let them live rent free in my head. Saying pronouns control other people is ridiculous. The only thing they control is the identity of the person using them.
read what I said again. its not the pronouns. its using them as a way to weaponize what is and isn’t acceptable.
“This person dared to ask a question about how I identify myself, they’re a terf for even asking!”
“This person said Fae creatures aren’t real! i am angry at them, BAN!”
if you accept these two above examples as good and logical, then we will never agree. and frankly, defending those who behave in such a manner makes a larger divide between those that are trans or othergender and those that aren’t.
people are allowed to ask questions and try and clarify what they don’t understand. and having to remember specific pronouns for every individual on an internet forum is a completely unacceptable thing to ask.
“This person said Fae creatures aren’t real! i am angry at them, BAN!”
When said in regards to not wanting to use a person’s preferred pronouns, yes that is a bad-faith argument. And, while I don’t agree with everything Ada does (or has done here), she is dedicated to making a safe space for her users with one of the rules being that you are to respect pronouns no matter what.
Also, I’m feeling more and more like Drag is dronerights, who was definitely a troll, but that will not make me use the wrong pronouns for Drag, and not necessarily for Drag’s sake but for the sake of anyone who feels better using neopronouns. In a discussion about this post on Hexbear, a user talked about how worried hy was asking for them to be included on the list. Even if Drag is a troll, there are people out there who are not and want these things.
asking to be referred to by pronouns is a reasonable request. asking people to refer to you by pronouns of fictional creatures is also reasonable, but when refused does not make the one who refused a bad person.
humans exist. she/he/they absolutely exists. dragons do not exist. nor do fae creatures.
its not unreasonable to refuse to give in to someone’s delusion.
if you wish to refer to them by the pronouns they made up, that’s fine. but its not reasonable to ask everyone to conform to that delusion.
and quite frankly, I see it as quite harmful to trans individuals. as it groups transgender individuals with those who are othergender and simply gives more excuses to say that real transgender people aren’t legitimate.
Doesn’t bother me. If it did, I’d block them. I actually found the whole thing a rather entertaining spectacle of flavor. I’m a middle age cis white guy. If you want to be called tuba, or tata, or whatever, I don’t care. If you use a foreign language like Chinese or Arabic I dislike my own ignorance and inability to understand, but I still respect the person’s decision.
Ultimately language rules are only a loose correlation based on use and culture. Rules and norms do not create language or cultures, people do. I only see people resisting the patently unfamiliar. “Dragonfucker” or any other pronoun is no different to me than a nickname. If something so simple is able to make just one person feel a little better about their life for a few moments, I’m happy to oblige. The Hippocratic aphorism “first do no harm” does not appear violated in my opinion. If annoyed, block them.
Yeah I will use preferred pronouns for people and users I respect when referring to them. It, xim, drag, doesn’t matter.
My contentious take is that using “they/them” in place of the preferred pronoun is not misgendering. I will use it to refer to people identifying as women, men, non-binary, or anything else, it should be neutral. I try to be inclusive as a best effort, and for all intents and purposes treat them as my equal. However, I’m not on a “nickname” basis with everyone and will just block if their asks become not worth my time.
I’ll disagree on that, but it’s complicated. I’m a trans woman that’s semi passing. When I’m dressed even remotely androgynous or if I haven’t told a person irl that my pronouns are she/her, or even if I think they may have forgotten then I don’t consider it misgendering. But sometimes people are clearly refusing to address me with feminine pronouns, despite me having told them several times, presenting myself femininely, and them correctly gendering the cis and cis passing women near me.
I see using they/them as choosing not to engage with gender at all, so I cannot fathom a circumstance in which it would be misgendering to use such pronouns. If the argument against is that someone in refusing to address one by their preferred gender, I can see some merit in that position, but ultimately I believe one cannot force another to engage with them in terms of gender.
Now, if one were to intentionally use masculine pronouns to refer to someone who wishes to be addressed in feminine or nonbinary terms, of course that meets the definition of active misgendering. But I believe anyone has the right to simply refuse to interact with another with regards to gender by using common, nongendered pronouns respectfully.
Getting banned on blahaj or hexbear is a good sign that you’re still sane tbh.
I legitimately thought better of Blahaj and Ada than this, and it’s very disappointing to see otherwise.
Blahaj is terrible, as every hardcore lgbtq+ community. They try to advocate for queer acceptance, but their radical behavior and batshit attitude are actually making them the biggest enemies of queer acceptance. They are helping rightoids sooo much.
queer acceptance
By whom?
YDI.
gatekeeping sure is when you tell someone their gender isn’t real. especially under a post that specifically says “hey don’t tell people their gender isn’t real.”
edit: removing my comments below because the discussion is no longer about respecting trans identities and is just a slapfight. fuck transphobes and get over yourselves on a single tiny user who you should have blocked months ago if you actually had a problem.
gatekeeping sure is when you tell someone their gender isn’t real. especially under a post that specifically says “hey don’t tell people their gender isn’t real.”
Their claimed gender is literally a dragon.
Dragons aren’t real.
Dragons.
Aren’t.
Real.
sounds like you and the other user will find more fulfillment in other communities than one that is specifically created to be trans accepting. i’m sorry that this user who was exhibiting trollish behavior was your first experience with a person who uses neopronouns. i hope you can come to a point of greater understanding in the future.
This isn’t my first experience with people using neopronouns, and I explicitly stated a willingness to use neopronouns.
edit: removing my comments below because the discussion is no longer about respecting trans identities and is just a slapfight. fuck transphobes and get over yourselves on a single tiny user who you should have blocked months ago if you actually had a problem.
You’re engaging in an online community that’s become so insular and self-absorbed that it’s become indistinguishable from parody. You’re literally defending dragonfucker as a gender, and furthermore saying that questioning any identity is inherently unacceptable.
Get help.
Literally all genders are made up, why are you getting so bent outta shape over a totally reasonable rule just because one person who stands to benefit from it is kinda annoying???
Literally all genders are made up
Gravity is just made up too. Doesn’t mean I’m going to take someone preaching intelligent falling seriously.
why are you getting so bent outta shape over a totally reasonable rule just because one person who stands to benefit from it is kinda annoying???
Look, if you want to have your fantasy roleplay where dragonfucker is a gender, that’s on you. Like I said in the message I was removed for, I’m no longer participating in Blahaj. You have fun with your faeries and dragons.
You don’t get to complain about other people trolling when you are being this deliberately obtuse.
Gravity is in the most literal sense a force of nature. It has had measurable effects since pretty much the dawn of time. Gender is a social construct. The only effects it has on the world around us is that which we as a society allow it to, and in the absence of any people who believe in such a concept it would cease to exist in any meaningful sense.
Nobody is sincerely claiming that dragons, as in the mythological creatures, actually exist in material reality. By adopting dragonfucker/rider as a gender identity, drag is aligning with the concept of them in some kinda nebulous social sense I’m not gonna pretend to understand.
Maybe drag’s trolling about it, but to be honest, I really couldn’t give a shit about the specifics of Dragon Rider’s identity one way or the other because I think drag’s an insufferable shit-stirrer. What really pisses me off here though is that you’ve actually made me care about this because in spending all day bitching about how drag’s a shit-stirring troll, you have engaged in precisely the behaviour that can make drag such a… drag.
“Gravity is just made up too.”
I apologize profusely for taking this argument seriously. The internet was a mistake; turn it off and leave it unplugged 😭
“Gravity is just made up too.”
Yes, it’s made up, just like the entire concept of physics and species are as well. Science is a social construct. That doesn’t mean it has no relation to reality.
might as well take a blowtorch to the wires while we’re at it
